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  1. #39
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    Re: State Water Project- siphoning the salmon

    Some of the material I have been reading refers to extremely low numbers in 2009 so I went back 2 2006 and looked at the Salvage numbers. In 2006 the pumps Salvage records were very high for Chinook or salmon. On one particular day as many as 3000 salmon we're trapped and several other days over 2,000. I believe it's a direct correlation to the returning numbers of adults in 2009.
    On a brighter note because of the drought the pumps only trapped about a thousand salmon in 2016. Perhaps that means the salmon fishing next year for 2019 will be a good one. It could also mean that doodoo lack of water we just didn't bring the fish up into the river system. We will have to wait and see.
    Looking ahead at 2020 it will be interesting to see what the runs provide. With over 40,000 salmon trapped at the pumps in 2017 what will the results be.
    The Stanislaus River has shown good numbers for the past couple years and it's time to open it up to salmon fishing for the local Anglers I've said it before and I'll say it again open the river please. Thanks for reading guys comments are always welcome

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  3. #38
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    Re: State Water Project- siphoning the salmon

    I failed to mention the stats that I posted for Salvage represent the Salvage numbers for salmon between February 1st and June 30th each year. The water export figures also represent the water that was exported during the same time. The numbers for 2015 2016 really show the effects of flow and how it affects our Fishery. During the peak time I consider halfway through March and April the pumps we're moving as low as $3,000 acre-feet a day. At other times the pumps maybe moving over 20,000 acre feet a day. When this happens between March and April the Salvage numbers can easily exceed a thousand fish per day. If they can figure out a way to export the water at lower amounts during March and April the salmon may have a better chance.

  4. #37
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    Re: State Water Project- siphoning the salmon

    I think 2015 2016 were the last of the drought years That was when Shasta was really low and Melones and all the other lakes. Like I ask years ago if that is what they salvage How many did they kill before the pumps were stop to save what they could. Maybe instead of a Damn High Speed Train with all the cost overruns and The weather satellite that MOON BEAM wants to put up We could build a few Desal plants along the coast for The cities that are water is not going to anyway. Looking forward to your next report Good Job

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  6. #36
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    Re: State Water Project- siphoning the salmon

    Hi guys I would like to update some numbers on the fish Salvage.
    Year. Salmon salv. H20export
    2018. 20265. 1190846
    2017. 40485. 2280606
    2016. 974. 1122563
    2015. 88. 629217
    2014. 1240. 740588
    2013. 5694. 929983
    2012. 3288. 952863
    2011. 34623. 2031690
    2010. 8778. 1411677
    2009. 7060. 960961
    2008. 11927. 930586

    That is 10 years of information related to our salmon Fishery and Water Management in the state of California. Between 2009 and 2012 a study at the head of Old River was completed to evaluate the barrier effectiveness and obtain better information concerning predation. In 2011 during this study the barrier at the head of Old River was left open and over 34,000 salmon became trapped at the pumps in Tracy. We managed to top that number in 2017 when over 40,000 salmon became trapped. The common factor for both those years was the amount of acre feet of water exported exceeded 2 million. I plan to look closely at the years 2016 and 2015 and figure out what may have kept the number so low. I already have a clue on part of it. A key time of the year for the migration outward of our juvenile salmon the pumps we're exporting a minimal amount of water. I will work up some numbers and try to get them posted. Thanks for reading and I'll talk to you later. Ken

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  8. #35
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    Re: State Water Project- siphoning the salmon

    Great thought provoking posts StikMan. Thank you. You will thoroughly enjoy the book Cadillac Desert. I still have the book which I read several years ago. Wanted to read it again so I downloaded the audio version. I’ve been kicking back in the evening listening to an hour or so. I think it something like 28 hours. It’s a fascinating history.
    Hunting, Fishing and Labrador Retrievers and at the end of the day a glass of Buffalo Trace Whiskey- Life is Sweet.

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  10. #34
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    Re: State Water Project- siphoning the salmon

    Makes you wonder how many shad were killed if they salvage that many in a two day period. I don't remenber how many days they run the pumps before they stop them and do a salvage of live fish. I have a friend that work for F&G when he was in college One of his jobs was to salvage fish from the pumps. He told me about all the big sturgeon & stripers that were killed by the pumps was a crazy amount. The state knew it would be a problem with fish when the pumps were built but did not care to do anything about it. Thanks for starting the topic.

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  12. #33
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    Re: State Water Project- siphoning the salmon

    Thank you for suggesting the book that judging from the details I will find very interesting. It's a definite must-read for me. In the early 1960s studies regarding the stomach contents of striped bass showed few to none of salmon in the contents. They did point out the water temperature and suggested that the cold water may have contributed to the diet or lack of appetite that the stripers showed at that time of year. We are not fortunate enough to have the colder water temperatures in the rivers. You have to have flow and water available to maintain that cold cold temperature. I have this wild idea. I believe it's safe to say if the rivers were flooded with threadfin shad the stripers wouldn't be hungry. That is there favorite food and when plentiful they don't seek steak and eggs. The problem is the time period at which the salmon try to escape the river system. The water is cold and the thread fin shad have moved out two deeper water to find warmth. They don't do well in cold cold water. I would like to do an experiment with about 300,000 threadfin shad. Raise them and release them a couple weeks before the outward migration of the salmon. Flood the river system with food basically. It seems like it would increase the odds of the salmon successfully getting out to the ocean. Here's an interesting number for you. Check July 14th of 2018 Salvage data at the pumping plants. In a two-day period a staggering number of Salvage exceeding 70,000 threadfin shad or sucked in by the pumps. That's two days and I understand this is a somewhat meaningless fish in our system but 70000 in 2 days really. I want to thank everybody for contributing with their opinions regardless of which side of the fence you maybe on it's important to hear from as many people as possible. More ideas from those who care about our Fishery go a lot further then two guys with briefcases and shiny shoes arguing about stuff they have no clue on. Take care thank you Ken

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  14. #32
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    Re: State Water Project- siphoning the salmon

    A documentary directed by award winning Marina Zenovich: "Water and Power: A California Heist" adds more current shenanigans by the usual suspects.

    https://www.amazon.com/Water-Power-C.../dp/B06XBSVM2W

    This documentary originally aired on Nat Geo, but can be viewed on Amazon Prime.

    Good discussion....... Obviously, we're not any closer to resolving anything, but I hope this and future discussion enlighten and unite anglers to create a single coalition, not pit one fish vs. another.

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  16. #31
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    Re: State Water Project- siphoning the salmon

    Quote Originally Posted by folide View Post
    Thanks for the recommendation of the book Waterdog. I found it on Audible and have 4 credits. Just purchased it.
    Youll enjoy the book. I haven’t read it for a number of years but I will probably reread it soon. Here’s an excerp from a review of the book that describes it much better than I.


    The story of the American West is the story of a relentless quest for a precious resource: water. It is a tale of rivers diverted and dammed, of political corruption and intrigue, of billion-dollar battles over water rights, of ecological and economic disaster. In his landmark book, Cadillac Desert, Marc Reisner writes of the earliest settlers, lured by the promise of paradise, and of the ruthless tactics employed by Los Angeles politicians and business interests to ensure the city’s growth. He documents the bitter rivalry between two government giants, the Bureau of Reclamation and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, in the competition to transform the West. Based on more than a decade of research, Cadillac Desert is a stunning expose and a dramatic, intriguing history of the creation of an Eden–an Eden that may only be a mirage.
    Hunting, Fishing and Labrador Retrievers and at the end of the day a glass of Buffalo Trace Whiskey- Life is Sweet.

  17. #30
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    Re: State Water Project- siphoning the salmon

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterdog View Post
    Well said and accurate. Absolutely factual and the truth. If anyone wants insight into water policy and water power politics in California read the book Cadillac Dessert. Published probably 30 years ago but still very relevant today. An excellent history. It’s also a very interesting and easy read.
    Thanks for the recommendation of the book Waterdog. I found it on Audible and have 4 credits. Just purchased it.

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