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  1. #13
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    Re: American River - What it Once Was

    Quote Originally Posted by kingkiller View Post
    You can blame the Russians and Asians for ****ing it up for everyone! No fishing Etiquette
    We can thank all of those who participate in the illegal activities on the water and around it. The amount of theft to the fishermen is ridiculous and the amount of illegal fishing violations is the same. Then there are those dumb @&&es who want to fight and cause trouble on the water. Its no wonder Fish and Game officials push for closure and give that as their recommendations as does CHP. Its sad because it is a perfect sign of the times we live in. No one cares about anyone and no one looks out for the other guy any more. Instead people are all about themselves and could care less about another person as long as that individual get theirs. Pathetic !!!

  2. #12
    Senior Member kingkiller's Avatar
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    Re: American River - What it Once Was

    You can blame the Russians and Asians for ****ing it up for everyone! No fishing Etiquette
    This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. M&P15 MAGPUL® SPEC SERIES. 5.56x45

  3. #11
    Senior Member Nor_Cal_Drifter's Avatar
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    Re: American River - What it Once Was

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigg A View Post
    You know how it is bro...our days are numbered
    Ugh. I know, you're right. It just sucks. Could have been different. Sometimes I feel like human beings are nothing more than a parasite, sucking the planet dry. Depressing.

    Hope you are doing well Ant and find some chrome soon! Seems like a slow start to the season so far.
    "Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after." - Henry David Thoreau

  4. #10
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    Re: American River - What it Once Was

    I’m guessing the preferred reply is “Those dam fishy politicientists don’t no nuthin bout nuthin!!!!” ?????

  5. #9
    "WHere were you fishing?" Bigg A's Avatar
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    Re: American River - What it Once Was

    Quote Originally Posted by Nor_Cal_Drifter View Post
    Here we go again...the state and Feds (i.e. Bureau of Reclamation, DFW, Fish and Wildlife, etc.) in their infinite wisdom, have decided to dump tons of gravel into the American River at Sailor Bar, sure to destroy yet another popular AR fishing spot (see attached link). And, to add insult to injury, they're gonna do it right in the middle of this year's Salmon run (Sept and Oct), putting silt into the river and blocking angler access. Prior year projects ruined a good hole at Riverbend, then a popular hole at El Manto, and now Sailor Bar. Add to that the permanent closure of Nimbus Basin to all fishing for a project that has no start date and (I believe) no financing, and it's really hard to not feel like the state has it in for the AR and anyone that fishes it. Meanwhile, the Central Valley Project Improvement Act that requires Salmon and Steelhead runs be returned to a level at or above historical numbers continues to be ignored, and the runs continue to decline. Dumping some spawning gravel into the river is not going to fix a thing - there is a dam 300 yards upstream! This is just a "feel good" project that is likely to do more harm than good. Improving hatchery practices and increasing hatchery production is the only answer (unless they want to tear down Nimbus and Folsom dams).

    This is really sad...the decline in local Salmon and Steelhead runs in just the 25 years I've been fishing locally is insane, and so much of it could have been prevented with better decisions and less greed. My cousin who taught me to fish these waters used to tell stories of our local rivers in the 60's and 70's when there were Salmon and Steelhead in the river almost year-round in huge numbers. So depressing...I feel bad for what future generations will miss out on.

    https://www.facebook.com/SacRegional...type=3&theater
    You know how it is bro...our days are numbered

  6. #8
    "WHere were you fishing?" Bigg A's Avatar
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    Re: American River - What it Once Was

    Quote Originally Posted by dsa2780 View Post
    Why not turn the basin, which is closed forevermore, into a giant gravel area where the fish are free from harassment?

    The American is being turned into a dead river. It’s a shame. Even a few years ago the runs were so much better than these last few seasons.

    The low flows to come also mean more fish pushing past Discovery, less fish for us local people who liked getting some Chrome action before or after work.

    So even more fish in the killbox of a 6 pack dude boat flossing the outlet hole for AR fish that didn’t want to make a right fin turn into a 1500cfs silty bathwater.



    Something is really off with the American salmon run. I recall a day last Fall, POURING RAIN, I damn near fished every drift on the parkway and saw well over 50+ anglers looking for a day of slay. 3 hookups were seen at a drift with like 12 people in it. For a two hour period at that drift. Confused faces everywhere. Old timers shaking their heads and people walking back to their cars all saying the same things of “it should be lights out”.
    I remember that day...I decided to stay home and it was a good decision. I didn't get not one slay report from anybody on the river. The steelhead run was phenomenal though

  7. #7
    Senior Member stefanoflo's Avatar
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    Re: American River - What it Once Was

    Quote Originally Posted by steeliesNstripers View Post
    From my earlier post on another board... sorry for any redundancy,,,

    Once again, the Bureau of Reclamation, in conjunction with DWR, NMFS, USFWS, CDFW, will be adding gravel from the quarry at the Olive Access to the stretch of river between the Nimbus Hatchery Weir and the end of Sailor Bar.


    This is basically an enhanced repeat of what was the first of 6 installments in 2008 of the Lower American River Anadromous Fish Habitat Restoration Project .

    In order of completion, the remaining 5 are:

    Lower Sailor Bar/Upper Sunrise = the 1/4-mile stretch above Upper Sunrise Island

    The crossing below the Jim Jones Walk Bridge (Lower Sunrise) and south 'side channel' at Lower Sunrise Island (directly across from mile marker 19 on the north side)

    The Nimbus Basin and subsequently-created side channel

    The area immediately downstream of the Arden/Goethe Bridge

    The Sacramento Bar above El Manto on the north side of the river

    I know this not because I read about it somewhere but because I've fished the Lower American River 200-300+ days per year for at least... the last 17 years. I have personally witnessed the effects of these so-called restoration projects and sadly, they have failed miserably to accomplish their desired goal of enhancing salmon and steelhead spawning habitat.

    What really concerns me about this waste of taxpayers' dollars is

    A) It creates a foil for said agencies to hide behind and thus avoid an actual solution to the problem.

    B) It perpetuates the fallacy that the American River has ANY potential to sustain a 'wild' population of salmon and or steelhead without reestablishing access to their native headwaters. Besides, without adhering to increased, mandatory flow regimes and creating more nursery habitat, all the gravel in the world will not equate to more fish.

    C) It does so at the expense of providing more fish and fishing opportunities for anglers. And sadly, the effects of these projects actually punishes legitimate anglers and rewards poachers and anglers lacking ethics (and no, this is definitely not a fly-guy versus gear-guy issue...). The long. shallow, unprotected runs of gravel created for supposed habitat enhancements actually makes spawning fish more vulnerable to; sight-fishing, flossing, snagging, and being pulled from their beds whether targeted or hooked incidentally.

    D) The addition of gravel without thoughtful placement thereof has not only failed to create new habitat but has filled in existing, deeper sections of river which once had active and viable spawning beds thus, leading to a net loss of salmonid habitat. If you doubt this, you do not spend much time on the river.

    I always place the needs of the fish before and above the needs of anglers but sadly, both are being compromised by this political, PR stunt so called the, "Lower American River Anadromous Fish
    Habitat Restoration Project"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

    I would be for any and all closures on the American River, IF they would result in healthier runs and greater numbers of fish. Unfortunately, this cannot happen for many reasons. I used to think... well it sure can't hurt. I no longer believe that to be the case based on much empirical evidence to the contrary...


    Honestly, CDFW should be raising and releasing a lot more than the mandated quota of 435,000 steelhead and 4 million salmon smolts annually. This would probably have little effect on the ability of the river to produce natural-origin fish but it would help to offset the perils of a compromised ecology and provide better angling opportunities for we anglers who pay lots of money to enjoy them.

    Save restoration money for streams and rivers which actually CAN sustain populations of wild fish.

    A gentleman who in the 1980's worked for Nimbus Hatchery was chastised and eventually transferred from his station there based on his practice of releasing excess smolts in to the river. Today, he works at the Mokelumne River Hatchery and without as much pressure and intervention by bureaucrats... along with increased production of eggs, net pen releases and habitat restoration, the hatchery has successfully restored the salmon and steelhead to record numbers as of 2017. Nimbus Hatchery should take notes...

    As for the side channels...

    There are several side channels in the AR but only 3 which were created by humans during the various stages of the stream-bed enhancements...

    The first was Lower Sunrise (southwest of the Sunrise Walk Bridge) It rejoins the river below the island and into the run directly across from Sacramento Bar above the turn at Ambassador Drive.

    Next, came the Nimbus Basin side channel which begins below and roughly in line with the middle of Nimbus Dam and rejoins the river just upstream (and southeast) of the Hazel Avenue Bridge.

    And finally, the side channel which begins rather immediately and to the southwest exposure of the Arden/Goethe (River Bend) bridge and rejoins the river before the sharp curve leading toward the Walnut Orchard run below.



    I agree 100000%
    I once heard that steel head and Salmon are the Most Studied Fish on the Planet , But they still seem to Not figure out on how to make the species or the runs any Better . makes you Wonder what there doing with all these studies. since ****s not working . maybe more studies??? all that Knowledge and nothing to show from it .

    A Life spent fishing, is never wasted.

  8. #6
    Member steeliesNstripers's Avatar
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    Re: American River - What it Once Was

    From my earlier post on another board... sorry for any redundancy,,,

    Once again, the Bureau of Reclamation, in conjunction with DWR, NMFS, USFWS, CDFW, will be adding gravel from the quarry at the Olive Access to the stretch of river between the Nimbus Hatchery Weir and the end of Sailor Bar.


    This is basically an enhanced repeat of what was the first of 6 installments in 2008 of the Lower American River Anadromous Fish Habitat Restoration Project .

    In order of completion, the remaining 5 are:

    Lower Sailor Bar/Upper Sunrise = the 1/4-mile stretch above Upper Sunrise Island

    The crossing below the Jim Jones Walk Bridge (Lower Sunrise) and south 'side channel' at Lower Sunrise Island (directly across from mile marker 19 on the north side)

    The Nimbus Basin and subsequently-created side channel

    The area immediately downstream of the Arden/Goethe Bridge

    The Sacramento Bar above El Manto on the north side of the river

    I know this not because I read about it somewhere but because I've fished the Lower American River 200-300+ days per year for at least... the last 17 years. I have personally witnessed the effects of these so-called restoration projects and sadly, they have failed miserably to accomplish their desired goal of enhancing salmon and steelhead spawning habitat.

    What really concerns me about this waste of taxpayers' dollars is

    A) It creates a foil for said agencies to hide behind and thus avoid an actual solution to the problem.

    B) It perpetuates the fallacy that the American River has ANY potential to sustain a 'wild' population of salmon and or steelhead without reestablishing access to their native headwaters. Besides, without adhering to increased, mandatory flow regimes and creating more nursery habitat, all the gravel in the world will not equate to more fish.

    C) It does so at the expense of providing more fish and fishing opportunities for anglers. And sadly, the effects of these projects actually punishes legitimate anglers and rewards poachers and anglers lacking ethics (and no, this is definitely not a fly-guy versus gear-guy issue...). The long. shallow, unprotected runs of gravel created for supposed habitat enhancements actually makes spawning fish more vulnerable to; sight-fishing, flossing, snagging, and being pulled from their beds whether targeted or hooked incidentally.

    D) The addition of gravel without thoughtful placement thereof has not only failed to create new habitat but has filled in existing, deeper sections of river which once had active and viable spawning beds thus, leading to a net loss of salmonid habitat. If you doubt this, you do not spend much time on the river.

    I always place the needs of the fish before and above the needs of anglers but sadly, both are being compromised by this political, PR stunt so called the, "Lower American River Anadromous Fish
    Habitat Restoration Project"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

    I would be for any and all closures on the American River, IF they would result in healthier runs and greater numbers of fish. Unfortunately, this cannot happen for many reasons. I used to think... well it sure can't hurt. I no longer believe that to be the case based on much empirical evidence to the contrary...


    Honestly, CDFW should be raising and releasing a lot more than the mandated quota of 435,000 steelhead and 4 million salmon smolts annually. This would probably have little effect on the ability of the river to produce natural-origin fish but it would help to offset the perils of a compromised ecology and provide better angling opportunities for we anglers who pay lots of money to enjoy them.

    Save restoration money for streams and rivers which actually CAN sustain populations of wild fish.

    A gentleman who in the 1980's worked for Nimbus Hatchery was chastised and eventually transferred from his station there based on his practice of releasing excess smolts in to the river. Today, he works at the Mokelumne River Hatchery and without as much pressure and intervention by bureaucrats... along with increased production of eggs, net pen releases and habitat restoration, the hatchery has successfully restored the salmon and steelhead to record numbers as of 2017. Nimbus Hatchery should take notes...

    As for the side channels...

    There are several side channels in the AR but only 3 which were created by humans during the various stages of the stream-bed enhancements...

    The first was Lower Sunrise (southwest of the Sunrise Walk Bridge) It rejoins the river below the island and into the run directly across from Sacramento Bar above the turn at Ambassador Drive.

    Next, came the Nimbus Basin side channel which begins below and roughly in line with the middle of Nimbus Dam and rejoins the river just upstream (and southeast) of the Hazel Avenue Bridge.

    And finally, the side channel which begins rather immediately and to the southwest exposure of the Arden/Goethe (River Bend) bridge and rejoins the river before the sharp curve leading toward the Walnut Orchard run below.


  9. Likes Waterdog liked this post
  10. #5
    Senior Member dsa2780's Avatar
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    Re: American River - What it Once Was

    Why not turn the basin, which is closed forevermore, into a giant gravel area where the fish are free from harassment?

    The American is being turned into a dead river. It’s a shame. Even a few years ago the runs were so much better than these last few seasons.

    The low flows to come also mean more fish pushing past Discovery, less fish for us local people who liked getting some Chrome action before or after work.

    So even more fish in the killbox of a 6 pack dude boat flossing the outlet hole for AR fish that didn’t want to make a right fin turn into a 1500cfs silty bathwater.



    Something is really off with the American salmon run. I recall a day last Fall, POURING RAIN, I damn near fished every drift on the parkway and saw well over 50+ anglers looking for a day of slay. 3 hookups were seen at a drift with like 12 people in it. For a two hour period at that drift. Confused faces everywhere. Old timers shaking their heads and people walking back to their cars all saying the same things of “it should be lights out”.
    Last edited by dsa2780; 08-22-2019 at 10:03 PM.

  11. Likes Spartan, Waterdog liked this post
  12. #4
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    Re: American River - What it Once Was

    Well, they already have a model that they are trying to duplicate.....it's called the Los Angeles River. By the way, my dad used to fish for steelhead in the Los Angeles River in the 30's and 40's. There were some decent runs in several of the creeks and rivers in the Los Angeles Basin back then. The American is headed that way...look for the idiots to break out the concrete trucks one day soon.

  13. Likes Spartan, bigfin liked this post
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