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View Full Version : Do I need 2lb test leaders for bait fishing?



westcoastdave
02-25-2013, 11:01 PM
I would like to know if I need to use 2lb test for leaders. I mostly fish for trout at Amador. I currently use 4lb flourocarbon. Does flourocarbon allow you to use a higher pound test?,or should I go to 2lb flourocarbon leaders for trout?

allfishing
02-25-2013, 11:15 PM
When I troll at amador I usually use a 6-8lb floro leader and havent been there without a limit in years. Im not sure if bait fishing would be any different but dont see why it would. BTW I have hooked a few monsters that have broke me off and wished I had been using 10lb but thats how it goes!

Captain Compassion
02-26-2013, 05:31 AM
2# test may be needed in crystal clear high mountain lakes for skeptical hold over trout but these are feed lot trout in a somewhat turbid lake with a life expectancy of less than 2 weeks once they hit the water. 4#, 6# line/leader is just fine.

CC

RideNfish
02-26-2013, 08:08 AM
+1 to Captain "C"

Me personally won't go over 4 lbs even at Amador but there are places 2 lbs can get the seasoned and smarter holdover. And let's face it, you want to increase your odds of the monster. But I don't use 2 lbs unless real clear water. Last year Melones was swimming pool clear. It was crazy. My dad and I were fishing side by side throwing the exact same set up (water bobber with a wooly bugger) I was getting about 30% more strikes than he was and a couple of larger fish. I grabbed his bugger and broke it off and tied 2 lbs and the we were strike for strike with each other. But that was crystal clear water as I said.

For normal stained water 4 is fine. You can land monster fish on any line given the right drag setting and proper angle and pressure on the rod. On shore you have to worry about obstacles and snags more but in a boat you can land almost anything. If a fish broke off running away then the drag was to tight.

Oh, if going to 2 lbs somewhere just be sure to retie more often. Any nick in the line or a knot that has been stressed will break. That is something I don't do enough of sometimes.

Go get'em!

mryosemite
02-26-2013, 09:24 AM
This is a great post and I'm curious what others have to say.

I used to be religious about using 4lb test both for my line and my leader. I would change my leader multiple times per trip and I wouldn't even use the same line on my spool more than 3 trips. Seemed like it would get dirty, memory coil, etc. But after getting too many snags and broken lines, I switched to 6lb. I haven't seen any difference in the number of fish I catch, the only difference is that I don't brake as many leaders on snags. So...I've been fishing 6lb for the past couple years.

That being said, I might have some sort of fishing line disability. I tried going back to 4lb leaders on my past trip to increase the bite with some spooked fish and I couldn't even tie a damn knot that wouldn't break. I don't know if it's because I was using a basic fishermans knot, don't know if it was a bad box of line...but that seems to be the neverending trend in my life. Both with fly fishing and with lures/bait. If I use 4lb, my line snaps like it's 10 year old cheap line, doesn't matter how new my line is or what brand I use. But if I step it up to 6lb...I can't break the line to save my life.

Long story short, I'm too incompetent to fish 4lb line and it seems as though 6lb completely overcomes my line/knot disabilities.

Lifted
02-26-2013, 09:53 AM
Here's a cool infographic that shows the difference between mono & fluoro. In a nutshell, fluoro sinks faster, doesn't stretch as much, is more abrasion resistant, is pretty much invisible in the water, but costs waaayyy more. As far as using 2lb, I second the other sniffers who say it depends on water clarity, but less so with fluorocarbon.

http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/purefishing/berkley-infographic?&wid=525

Marv
02-26-2013, 10:07 AM
4lb. is fine and like RideNfish I won't go over 4lb. either. I used 2lb. vanish flouro all summer long and pulled in many a fish up river through some rollers in the current. I was worried @ first tossing such light line that you can easily break with you hands, but add in a reel with a good drag system and a good rod and your good to go. If your reel has a choppy drag or needs more pressure to start the drag and then smoothes out alb. is not an option.

I'm currently using 5lb. pline flouroclear it has the diametor of 4lb. berkey xl. That's another thing, if possible looks @ the line diameter and not the pound test. Some brands 6lb. is the same size as a different brands 4lb.

Also whip casting 1/4oz lures on 2lb. can result in some lost lures, some have no trouble rocketing it full blast.

iggybabble
02-26-2013, 10:47 AM
assuming you have a reel that you have spare spools for, or at least can buy...if you feel the need for 2 lb test, load a spool with it. if your line breaks, it going to be at its weakest point, which will likely be at a knot in the 2 lb test, and more knots, more weak spots.......id be far more inclined to stick with 4 lb line, and if it seems like the fish are a little line shy, add a 4 lb Fluorocarbon leader, rather than drop to 2 lb leaders. if you really feel better with 2lb, id seriously look for a really soft fiberglass rod, rather than graphite. ive bought via Ebay or Craigslist several older glass rods, the Fenwick FS series (FS49, FS53, FS60, etc) or Lamiglas glass ultralights, all rated about 1-4 lb test. as of a few years back, Fenwick still produced the FS series, labeled "Classic Glass" that were great substitutes for the older rods, Kencor may still produce some glass ultralights as well, Kens Sporting Goods in Bridgeport carried them if i recall.

Jetspray
02-26-2013, 01:00 PM
2# test may be needed in crystal clear high mountain lakes for skeptical hold over trout but these are feed lot trout in a somewhat turbid lake with a life expectancy of less than 2 weeks once they hit the water. 4#, 6# line/leader is just fine.

CC


Hey what you use works well enough, look at today's results to see if it did. I rest my case......Jetspray

Jetspray
02-26-2013, 01:05 PM
The main thing to worry about is if the fish will spook easily on the line when fishing. Sometimes it may be just a change in the line itself that does the trick. That is why I pre-tie some hooks on different lines so that I can change them out if the bite is off. Today I stuck with the same line and probably should have changed it out, but I didn't and therefore I got a skunkolla while Richard caught 3. Oh well maybe next time.......Jetspray

FresnoJack
02-26-2013, 02:24 PM
2poundknotaphobia.

I think I solved my phobia by using a doubled palomar. Through the top loop two times instead of one. I make sure the knot is wet before I cinch it down.

Click on the image for a larger size.

13010



+1 to Captain "C"

Me personally won't go over 4 lbs even at Amador but there are places 2 lbs can get the seasoned and smarter holdover. And let's face it, you want to increase your odds of the monster. But I don't use 2 lbs unless real clear water. Last year Melones was swimming pool clear. It was crazy. My dad and I were fishing side by side throwing the exact same set up (water bobber with a wooly bugger) I was getting about 30% more strikes than he was and a couple of larger fish. I grabbed his bugger and broke it off and tied 2 lbs and the we were strike for strike with each other. But that was crystal clear water as I said.

For normal stained water 4 is fine. You can land monster fish on any line given the right drag setting and proper angle and pressure on the rod. On shore you have to worry about obstacles and snags more but in a boat you can land almost anything. If a fish broke off running away then the drag was to tight.

Oh, if going to 2 lbs somewhere just be sure to retie more often. Any nick in the line or a knot that has been stressed will break. That is something I don't do enough of sometimes.

Go get'em!

Reel Fun
02-26-2013, 03:39 PM
Why would you use a sinking flourocarbon line with floating bait?

RF

Marv
02-26-2013, 06:18 PM
Why would you use a sinking flourocarbon line with floating bait?

RF

Because, you can use it for many other applications. Also the floating bait floats just fine with flouro. When drifting eggs or crawlers in a stream it's gets to the bottom faster. When you throw sinking lures (kastmasters, spinners, jigs, 90% of other lures) the lures run at a better depth (they are made to sink) without the bow in the line mono gives. To each his own :) someone could ask "why use a floating line for a sinking lure.''

Captain Compassion
02-26-2013, 06:36 PM
Sometimes I wonder about all this. Last year I was fishing the East Walker in very low and clear water in late winter conditions. I was using 6# P-Line CXX with very small plastics. The wild bows and browns didn't seem to mind. I'm just sayin.

CC

ApexPredator
02-26-2013, 07:29 PM
When I troll Berryessa the lightest leader I have used is 8# mono. I usually have 8, 10, and 20# maxima line in my boat and I am pretty sure a trip last year I used 20# because I left the rest of the mono at home without issue. I have caught fish every time except for my last trip where the fish were still deep.

CAL.NDN
02-26-2013, 07:37 PM
Use what your comfortable with and confident with im a 4# man my cuz goes te toe and wins alot times in numbers with 6# and im talking from rivers streams and lakes from wilds to holdovers to trout truck chasing from browns to bows. He uses what he likes and i what i like. Good luck.

Reel Fun
02-27-2013, 07:43 AM
I really like the Maxima 5 lb green! I have landed 6lb + bass with it!

RF

Jfitalia
02-27-2013, 09:06 AM
all lure rods are spooled with 2lb p line floroclear. i tie a palomar knot for everything. if you're going to use 2lb test then you need to have a long, limber extra fast action rod. some of the guys responding here stating they use much heavier lines are also using heavier rods. my 2lb test has landed dozens of trout over 6lbs with many being the hard fighting fish from Crowley. its landed rainbows over 12lbs.

my bait rods are spooled with 3 lb test and use my left over spools of 2lb as leader.

iggybabble
02-27-2013, 10:02 AM
all lure rods are spooled with 2lb p line floroclear. i tie a palomar knot for everything. if you're going to use 2lb test then you need to have a long, limber extra fast action rod. some of the guys responding here stating they use much heavier lines are also using heavier rods. my 2lb test has landed dozens of trout over 6lbs with many being the hard fighting fish from Crowley. its landed rainbows over 12lbs.

my bait rods are spooled with 3 lb test and use my left over spools of 2lb as leader.


i think you mean long limber, parabolic or slow action rod? thats why i still prefer a glass rod for this over graphite...........as you go lighter and lighter, properly balanced tackle becomes ever more critical, along with a silky smooth drag

Marv
02-27-2013, 10:18 AM
Check this out, here's a snippet.


The record that Sheffield's catch topped was a 21-pound, 7-ounce fish caught in 2006 from the waters around Shinnecock Bay, N.Y.

Sheffield destroyed that mark with a 50 -pound, 9 -ounce giant caught while drifting a live eel near Kiptopeke on the Eastern Shore.

He was using 2-pound test Ande Tournament Line spooled on a Shimano Chronarch bait-casting reel locked onto a 7 -foot custom-built rod.

The fight from his 18-1/2 -foot flats boat took an hour and 20 minutes.

His fish was certified at Long Bay Pointe Marina by Virginia IGFA representative Julie Ball.

50 Lber on 2 Pound test line - StriperSurf Forums (http://www.stripersurf.com/forums/showthread.php?t=527155)

Jfitalia
02-27-2013, 10:31 AM
i think you mean long limber, parabolic or slow action rod? thats why i still prefer a glass rod for this over graphite...........as you go lighter and lighter, properly balanced tackle becomes ever more critical, along with a silky smooth drag

no i meant exactly what i said. i hate glass rods for the pure fact that they dont cast or have the sensitivity that i like. i usually toss small 1/64oz and even 1/80oz jigs. a glass rod keeps wobbling after you cast which in turn hits your line and reduces casting distance. i balance all my rods with a stradic or symmetry from shimano.

Marv
02-27-2013, 10:46 AM
+1 on not liking glass rods. Those buggy whips KILL 2 things 1.casting distance 2. sensitivity.

I also balance my rods, not to a shimano, mines a spiderman reel 13024

Ps; on ah side note Kencor is out of business.

Jfitalia
02-27-2013, 11:06 AM
+1 on not liking glass rods. Those buggy whips KILL 2 things 1.casting distance 2. sensitivity.

I also balance my rods, not to a shimano, mines a spiderman reel 13024

Ps; on ah side note Kencor is out of business.

Kencor was also a terribly overpriced bright yellow rod. I was given 2 many years ago from the company and promply gave them back.

RideNfish
02-27-2013, 02:38 PM
Yes with Jeremy,
Light action or even UL action but fast fast tip. The light action of the rod can handle a large strike and a soft touch on the fight. The fast tip gives greater sensitivity and really helps with casting light lures or presentations.

IMO :-)

mryosemite
02-27-2013, 02:40 PM
A picture is worth a thousand words and Marv's pic comparing mono to carbon is awesome. Brilliant advice by him or someone else to use 4lb carbon leader with 6lb mono.

Seriously...I dont care what people say about you guys on the other forums...you rock.

Jetspray
02-27-2013, 03:11 PM
+1 on not liking glass rods. Those buggy whips KILL 2 things 1.casting distance 2. sensitivity.

I also balance my rods, not to a shimano, mines a spiderman reel 13024

Ps; on ah side note Kencor is out of business.


+1 I think most of them have the sensitivity of a telephone pole. "Buggy whips" I like that one
:grin::grin::grin::grin:It all comes around in the end, spend a little more for quality:fishing1:......Jetspray

Jfitalia
02-27-2013, 03:24 PM
Yes with Jeremy,
Light action or even UL action but fast fast tip. The light action of the rod can handle a large strike and a soft touch on the fight. The fast tip gives greater sensitivity and really helps with casting light lures or presentations.

IMO :-)

either action is fine, i prefer rods rated 2-8lb test.

Koke Machine83
02-27-2013, 04:04 PM
I have caught at least four trout this year at Camanche with really light line leader. I think 2 or 4lbs is a bit light. You have a chance to hook a Monster Rainbow at Camanche or Amador. Just not worth it... Not even by a little bit a fan of Flourocarbon. I have had it break so many times, won't use it at ALL... Berkeley Trilene in Clear is all i use for every leader i put out. Never had one break, YET!!! Kokanee and Rainbows Just my 2cents

Robbie (Koke Machine)...

Line Stretcher
02-27-2013, 04:22 PM
The key to you choice is probably better based on knot strength rather than line break strength. Right now the knot I like for FC is the Fishin Fool Knot. You can learn how to tie it at www.steelheadstalkers.com (http://www.steelheadstalkers.com).

I did some tests on knot break strength a while back and while they were pretty crude tests processes they did tell me a lot about what I was actually landing fish with. I tried a lot of variations of different knots but none of them got me above 60%. The palomar and even the double palomar rarely exceeded 40%.

One thing I did not do was be meticulous about my knots. I figured that when I was out on the water I wasn't going to spend 15 or even 1 or 2 minutes on a knot during a hot bite. Time after time the Fishing Fool Knot hit 80% without being overly careful.

Based on what I found I bumped all my leaders up by 2 lbs. For trolling lake trout in the max 3-4 lb range from a rod holder I'll run a 10lb leader. If I'm holding the rod, I'll run 8lb.

If I'm bait fishing under a bobber I can go all the way down to 4lb which pretty much guarantees a 2lb knot strength or better. Running 2lb might mean that I've really only got 1lb and that scares me even on my UL gear.

Marv
02-27-2013, 04:36 PM
+1 pdgs on the fish'n fool knot.

Robbie, I think most of us using 2-4lb. are bankers. I know everyone usually trolls with 6-8lb. Berkley vanish was crap when it first came out, but if you lubricate your knots and tie them correctly there's no problem. The first time used 2lb. I was surprised at how much pressure I had to apply to break off a snagged lure.

Mr.yosemite, I graciously thank you for your kind words, however being ah somewhat honest guy I can't take credit for the diagram. I also liked the diagram, cause lets face it sometimes pictures are easier for me to understand :)

iggybabble
02-27-2013, 07:14 PM
ive primarily used 2 lb in small streams.........same for that matter the glass rods are also typically used in small bodies of water, or in instances that i know i dont require lots of casting distance. we agree that they arent as sensitive, and dont give the casting distance. along with my love of fishing, ive also become a collector of vintage and antique fishing equipment, and i like fishing some of the old gear just for comparison and nostalgias sake! ive got a number of old Fenwick, Browning Silaflex, Sabre and Lamiglas rods, and Zebco Cardinal, Garcia Mitchell, Quick Finessa, even one Alcedo Micron reel. counting fresh, salt, and fly gear, ive accumulated well over 100 rods and reels.....

Koke Machine83
02-27-2013, 08:51 PM
MARV: The Trout i have caught at Camanche had really light line leaders, I know they were bank fisherman cause of the small treble hook. I'm just saying that using light line, you might get broke off. Which i have four small trebles on the window seal now. I just have had problems with the Flouro before. So i will just stick with my Trilene. I know you need the light line to get the baits to float. Good Luck to You

Robbie

RideNfish
02-28-2013, 09:19 AM
i like fishing some of the old gear just for comparison and nostalgias sake!

I was at my dad's yesterday and he asked if I wanted an old fishing rod. He handed it to me and the damn thing weighted a TON. It was only about 5 feet and a lathe spun wood handle. You want to know why it was so heavy? The rod was hammered STEEL. Four sided tapering square shape with eyelets and all. It was "whippy" and couldn't imagine casting that thing. It would be hard to stop the follow thru! Wish I would of taken a pic.

iggybabble
02-28-2013, 09:40 AM
yep, they made solid steel rods, tubular telescopic steel rods, beryllium copper tubular rods that resembled golf club shafts, split bamboo, and solid fiberglass among other materials. ive fished the split bamboo, and solid fiberglass. solid glass, like the old pale green True Temper rods of years ago were absolute killer salmon trolling rods. the old rods and reels make great decorations in one's man cave.........

FresnoJack
03-01-2013, 07:15 PM
My first rod was a hand-me-down. It was made from a war surplus metal rod that was once a radio aerial on a tank or jeep. Fished like a noodle rod.

It was not home-made. There was actually a company that manufactured these, tho I cannot recall the name.


I was at my dad's yesterday and he asked if I wanted an old fishing rod. He handed it to me and the damn thing weighted a TON. It was only about 5 feet and a lathe spun wood handle. You want to know why it was so heavy? The rod was hammered STEEL. Four sided tapering square shape with eyelets and all. It was "whippy" and couldn't imagine casting that thing. It would be hard to stop the follow thru! Wish I would of taken a pic.