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View Full Version : The correct way to Plant a Stream



stefanoflo
06-20-2013, 12:25 AM
Today I read an article about how Up in the hills of the Stanislaus River around Utica lake .How That the fish in That area have Pink meat because they Plant them when they are 2- 3 inches and are raised in the stream they live in . They say this is the Best way to plant fish and they are all native , healthy and breed. Why is it we are Not doing this in the Lower streams I would think Fishing would be allot better for all if it was this way . I'm sure before we had What you call Biologist . That the fish was better back when compared to as is Now .
Just because you went and got a degree , means that the common sense way of doing things is wrong.
Just my 2 Cents .

Jetspray
06-20-2013, 04:06 AM
I think it is more an economic issue for the state. It is better for fish to grow in natural waters, but because of management (of said same) it diminishes the total program by funding......Jetspray

Jfitalia
06-20-2013, 06:12 AM
Well the biggest reason is those 3inch fish will take a couple years to get to a catchable size. So the streams will have no one fishing for that time frame. These streams are money getters for the local businesses. Also since most streams feed into lakes they are required to plant sterile fish.

I'm sorry but to me it doesn't sound like it is a better way to stock. Hell misery private hatcheries now raise the fish in feeder streams. I personally will not be driving 2 hours to a stream to catch a 10inch trout.

Snowtrout
06-20-2013, 07:49 AM
There are two types of fisheries: 1-put and take 2-put and grow. Most lakes and streams are put and take because they cannot support the pressure put on them by anglers with just natural reproduction. Plus they may lack the food source needed to feed enough fish to grow into a catchable (10-12") size. Fish not caught may holdover to the next year and maybe even spawn but those factors are not really taken into account nor expected in some bodies of water.

Put and grow fisheries are different. Lake and streams that have a high food base that can support fingerlings will be planted with sub-catchables. The idea is the fish will grow into a catchable size naturally. Usually these bodies of water also have the means for natural spawning and mature fish.

Lastly, both wild and planted fish can have pink meat. Tim Alpers produces rainbow trout to plant in the eastern Sierra's that have bright red meat. I have caught many brown trout that have white to peach colored meat. The color of a fishes meat comes from its diet. If it eats lots of bugs, crustaceans and shrimp=red meat. If it eats primarily fish=light colored meat. So the article that you read saying the meats color came from the stream it came from is incorrect. It was what the fish ate.

dilbeck
06-20-2013, 08:44 AM
Jeremy and Snowtrout pretty much nailed it.

iggybabble
06-20-2013, 09:42 AM
correct way to plant a stream? each stream is different, each fishery, each species. part of Ca's big problem lies in how they want a one size fits all approach. Fishermen need a louder voice, and radical environmentalosers need to be pushed back into the shadows.

stefanoflo
06-20-2013, 12:56 PM
There are two types of fisheries: 1-put and take 2-put and grow. Most lakes and streams are put and take because they cannot support the pressure put on them by anglers with just natural reproduction. Plus they may lack the food source needed to feed enough fish to grow into a catchable (10-12") size. Fish not caught may holdover to the next year and maybe even spawn but those factors are not really taken into account nor expected in some bodies of water.

Put and grow fisheries are different. Lake and streams that have a high food base that can support fingerlings will be planted with sub-catchables. The idea is the fish will grow into a catchable size naturally. Usually these bodies of water also have the means for natural spawning and mature fish.

Lastly, both wild and planted fish can have pink meat. Tim Alpers produces rainbow trout to plant in the eastern Sierra's that have bright red meat. I have caught many brown trout that have white to peach colored meat. The color of a fishes meat comes from its diet. If it eats lots of bugs, crustaceans and shrimp=red meat. If it eats primarily fish=light colored meat. So the article that you read saying the meats color came from the stream it came from is incorrect. It was what the fish ate.

here is a crazy idea , that maybe will not happen
what if we had 30 angers buy 5 dollars of crickets and worms and at 300 yards beteen each angler release the insects ,for the natural fish to feed on before winter . so as to have a bigger healthier Trout that is native.
Like I said , just a crazy thought

Jfitalia
06-20-2013, 05:11 PM
here is a crazy idea , that maybe will not happen
what if we had 30 angers buy 5 dollars of crickets and worms and at 300 yards beteen each angler release the insects ,for the natural fish to feed on before winter . so as to have a bigger healthier Trout that is native.
Like I said , just a crazy thought

I don't see how this would help anything. First off natural forage is exactly that, natural. Buying food and dropping it into a stream is not natural. Plus who in their right mind is going to do that? I'm sorry but I pay enough money for my fishing license. Now someone is going to tell me I need to buy fish food and do it myself?

I think the way it's being done now is fine. Again people are not going to drives for hours and spend money on campsites for 6-10 inch. I'd rather chase alpers or other large planters that will actually put up a fight.

borntoscout
06-21-2013, 07:47 AM
I think the way it's being done now is fine. Again people are not going to drives for hours and spend money on campsites for 6-10 inch. I'd rather chase alpers or other large planters that will actually put up a fight.

I think some of the people who brought us SB 1148 would love to convert road side stream jumbo planter fisheries to "natural" fisheries (c&r only for wild natives, perhaps fly only) but are held at bay by the political clout of local chambers of commerce. So if you want the way it is done now to continue, be sure to spend freely while you are in the locale.

stefanoflo
06-21-2013, 07:58 AM
Well the biggest reason is those 3inch fish will take a couple years to get to a catchable size. So the streams will have no one fishing for that time frame. These streams are money getters for the local businesses. Also since most streams feed into lakes they are required to plant sterile fish.

I'm sorry but to me it doesn't sound like it is a better way to stock. Hell misery private hatcheries now raise the fish in feeder streams. I personally will not be driving 2 hours to a stream to catch a 10inch trout.

I still do`nt know why we need to plant sterile fish at all?? . and the talk about driving 2 hours for a 10 inch fish . hell back in the 70`s and 80`s we drove 2 hrs for those 10 inch fish. Why?? because we had a limit of 10 fish. So if we planted Breeders and we all the sudden get lakes and streams with fish up the Kazoo. why not raise the limit to 10 again??. along with a few plants . you can`t go wrong. better yet, if 10 is too much 8 then??I always wondered why they dropped it to 5 anyway ?? lack of fish maybe ?? or lawsuits for killing fish in the pumps?? .

Jfitalia
06-21-2013, 08:47 AM
I still do`nt know why we need to plant sterile fish at all?? . and the talk about driving 2 hours for a 10 inch fish . hell back in the 70`s and 80`s we drove 2 hrs for those 10 inch fish. Why?? because we had a limit of 10 fish. So if we planted Breeders and we all the sudden get lakes and streams with fish up the Kazoo. why not raise the limit to 10 again??. along with a few plants . you can`t go wrong. better yet, if 10 is too much 8 then??I always wondered why they dropped it to 5 anyway ?? lack of fish maybe ?? or lawsuits for killing fish in the pumps?? .


They plant sterile fish because they don't want the rainbows going into these lakes and breading.

As for the 10inch fish question...
I fish because I love the challenge of hooking a fish and then the battle that comes with it. There is no battle in catching a 10inch fish! Now before you say I need to use lighter tackle all my rods are ultra lights and I use 2 and 3lb test. I want a fish that is going to pull drag and test me angling skills. How the hell is a 10inch fish going to do that? I am not alone on this theory and that is why most lakes and streams no longer get their fish from DFW. The reason is because their 10-12inch fish don't fight worth a crap. People aren't going to show up for baby fish.

I personally don't fish in order to eat everything. If I need fish that bad I would rather save the gas and run to the store. Again things are being done just fine right now. I don't believe what you are proposing is the "correct way" to stock fish. Why plant a bunch of 10inch fish so you can raise the limit to 10 fish. When you can keep planting 2-3lb trout and keep the limit at 5? Hell those 5 trout will still be more meat than all 10 of your baby trout:biggrin:

Spinner
06-21-2013, 10:34 AM
A planter is a PLANTER whether it's 5 lbs. or 10 inches! Niether is a trophy in my book! BUT a 10 inch brookie from a small mountain stream, OHHH YAAA!!! (but brookies aren't natural either, just well established and breeding on their own). My point here is everybody's trophy is different and not worth arguing about.
If it's size you want...GO TO THE OCEAN, otherwise respect each individual water's resource as they should all be important to all of us.

isdaann
06-21-2013, 10:48 AM
Big Trout is nice, but if they are raised in a cement raceway and dumped into a stream only two days before, kinda kills the glory.

Biologist need to figure what really works for each individual stream. If there is not enough food source maybe plant some indigenous minnows to go along with the trout?

All of our stream are sick because of all years of clear cutting our forests. They will never be what they used to be. So we can only create a artificial environment. Example I always use, Shasta Dam took out 90% of the spwaning grounds for salmon, will the Sacramento ever recover from that?

Katfish
06-21-2013, 10:50 AM
A planter is a PLANTER whether it's 5 lbs. or 10 inches! Niether is a trophy in my book! BUT a 10 inch brookie from a small mountain stream, OHHH YAAA!!! (but brookies aren't natural either, just well established and breeding on their own). My point here is everybody's trophy is different and not worth arguing about.
If it's size you want...GO TO THE OCEAN, otherwise respect each individual water's resource as they should all be important to all of us.

+1

And in response to the idea that we all go buy bait and dump it in the stream... Your not serious right. Sure they might have some food for a few days. Not by any means NATURAL food when we just threw it in there for them. But after a few days most of that food would be gone, drift downstream or be eaten by some other type of resident species. Dumping a few thousand worms In a stream is not going to ensure bigger stronger trout...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

Jfitalia
06-21-2013, 11:47 AM
A planter is a PLANTER whether it's 5 lbs. or 10 inches! Niether is a trophy in my book! BUT a 10 inch brookie from a small mountain stream, OHHH YAAA!!! (but brookies aren't natural either, just well established and breeding on their own). My point here is everybody's trophy is different and not worth arguing about.
If it's size you want...GO TO THE OCEAN, otherwise respect each individual water's resource as they should all be important to all of us.


Telling someone to go to the ocean for size makes zero sense. Size is based on the species your fishing for not where you are fishing.

I also don't believe anyone is disrespecting someone's water resource. My posts are to show why wild fish are not being planted. I also stated my PERSONAL opinion on catching baby 10inch fish. I myself have backpacked into many high elevation lakes and caught thousands of 10inch brookies. After 15 of those things it gets old when they can't even pull drag.

If you like catching those types of fish then great. In fact go park up at Wrights lake and hike to schmidel. I however strongly believe that if streams are needed to be stocked then the vast majority of anglers would prefer that they stock alpers or some other brood stock.

49erbassman
06-21-2013, 12:21 PM
You guys need to Bass fish and leave the fake trout alone! Hahahaha


Fish on!

stefanoflo
06-21-2013, 04:47 PM
+1

And in response to the idea that we all go buy bait and dump it in the stream... Your not serious right. Sure they might have some food for a few days. Not by any means NATURAL food when we just threw it in there for them. But after a few days most of that food would be gone, drift downstream or be eaten by some other type of resident species. Dumping a few thousand worms In a stream is not going to ensure bigger stronger trout...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

No .
I was just being a Goof. I do that from time to time to get My brain to take day the day off. and it also get people IQ`s working. The last Thing I want are fish with High Blood pressure and diabetes`s . The trout gods have a better plan than me . its just sometime the Gods In Sacramento like to screw it up for us all.