PDA

View Full Version : Trout Derby Live-well Question



Fisherman209
12-11-2013, 04:06 AM
This might be a stupid question. I've never participated in a trout derby. My experience with trout has mainly been c & r. I have a question about how everyone keeps their trout in good health for the weigh in. The rules show that a fish that looks questionable in health can be disqualified. I'll be fishing from a float tube. I'm just curious about everyone's methods of keeping their trout alive for the weigh in?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

siskiyoufisherman
12-11-2013, 07:45 AM
Have to kill them to keep them. Not sure why you can't have live trout in the well. Maybe they die in there any way or maybe then you can't use them for live bait.

RideNfish
12-11-2013, 09:02 AM
Yea, like Brad said. Illegal to keep in live well since culling is a no no. Not like bass. That is the reason it's illegal. They don't want people keeping them alive to trade up later. They can't survive that so there would be just dead culled fish floating around.

The rules just said the fish has to be obviously caught within the allotted hours and not appear to old. Nothing about being alive. They just want it known that if it looks like you pulled it from the freezer and thawed it they can turn you away. They will use their discretion to disqualify a fish. But any trout fisherman knows how the fish change appearance after being caught and dying. So as long as you just fish the hours they give you will have no problem. IMO

Cheers,

84toyota
12-11-2013, 09:23 AM
I'm no expert in fishing tournaments, but I did fish one last summer with a guide friend of mine. We used an ice chest with water and ice in it to keep the fish cool.

Ken

Jfitalia
12-11-2013, 09:38 AM
Yea, like Brad said. Illegal to keep in live well since culling is a no no. Not like bass. That is the reason it's illegal. They don't want people keeping them alive to trade up later. The can't survive that so there would be just dead culled fish floating around.

The rules just said the fish has to be obviously caught within the allotted hours and not appear to old. Nothing about being alive. They just want it known that if it looks like you pulled it from the freezer and thawed it they can turn you away. They will use their discretion to disqualify a fish. But any trout fisherman knows how the fish change appearance after being caught and dying. So as long as you just fish the hours they give you will have no problem. IMO

Cheers,


Doug, I am too damn lazy to look through the regs to see where it states you can't keep trout in a live well. I see it done all the time! They just fill it with water and don't have the pump turned on. I have even seen most fill it with water and ice. Plus what is the difference in a boater using a livewell and a shore guy using those baskets? Trout stay alive a lot longer in one of that floating basket stringers than in a livewell. Why are anglers allowed to use those and not a livewell?

Line Stretcher
12-11-2013, 10:04 AM
I believe the law is that you cannot transport live fin fish from the body of water that they were taken. There are exceptions to that during black bass tournaments but I found nothing about trout tournaments.

You still must abide by the bag and possession limits.

Grncrestliner
12-11-2013, 04:24 PM
I do not remember exactly where it is in the regs but you are not allowed to keep live trout in or on a boat. Even stringers over the side to keep them alive are not legal. On the bank stringers are apparently not a problem if the fish remains alive. This has been the law for a long time. On my boat if you want to keep your trout you will kill it or you will not keep a trout and stay on my boat. I do it by bonking or bleeding or both. The way it was explained to me years ago was fishermen may try to use a live trout for bait and that is illegal. Why the difference between boat and bank nobody seems to know. Just what I have read and been told and I was wrong at least once before.
John

49erbassman
12-11-2013, 05:03 PM
It's on page 15 of the regs under bait. It states not trout may be maintained or possessed in a live condition in a container or stringer hanging over the side of the boat. I looked this up a few months ago.


Fish on!

Jfitalia
12-11-2013, 05:32 PM
It's on page 15 of the regs under bait. It states not trout may be maintained or possessed in a live condition in a container or stringer hanging over the side of the boat. I looked this up a few months ago.


Fish on!


Well that says "over the side of the boat" so does that mean in the boat is ok?

I've seen trout survive all day in those floating baskets used by shore anglers.

CRABBY
12-11-2013, 05:43 PM
Well that says "over the side of the boat" so does that mean in the boat is ok?

I've seen trout survive all day in those floating baskets used by shore anglers.>>>>>It's on page 15 of the regs under bait. It states no trout may be maintained or possessed in a live condition in a container or stringer hanging over the side of the boat. I looked this up a few months ago. <<<<<<
As stated it says "Not maintained in a live condition in a container".I would think that covers live wells,ice chests etc.or even a cardboard box even in your boat!!:wallbash:

49erbassman
12-11-2013, 05:55 PM
Yup card board box to lol....hell if it's a planter I think we should be able to hook it up for live bait ;). But the law is pretty clear on this one


Fish on!

Line Stretcher
12-11-2013, 07:05 PM
This is the actual wording in the section regarding bait:

(e) No trout may be maintained or possessed in a live condition in any container on or attached to any boat.

It can certainly be easily misinterpreted.

What I've heard is that fisherman will put live trout in a live well with obviously no intention of keeping them for bait. They later hear others call that culling and believe that they broke the law.

or

They put their fish in the live well and then forget and pull the boat out and run into a student working for the DFW doing a creel count. At that point they are reminded that what they did is illegal.

I do not personally know anyone that was actually cited for culling or transporting live trout.

I did a quick search on the regs for the word culling and cull and didn't find anything that would indicate it was illegal to cull trout except this constant reminder;

As a reminder it is illegal to intentionally conceal, cull or possess a salmonid in a condition such that species, size and the presence of an adipose fin cannot be determined. (FGC, section 1.45 and 8226)

There are a whole set of regs that back up the published, simplified regs on the DFG website and there are also federal regs. There may be more info in those that amplifies the subject.

IronClad
12-11-2013, 07:24 PM
I had encountered this up on lake oroville with DFW doing a license/fish check. These were actual wardens and not fish counters and when they asked to see our fish and i pulled the trout out of my livewell ( no intention of keeping them live, the water was cold and i didnt have an ice chest so in it went) they told me that was illegal. I explained i had no idea and ofcourse obliged and killed the trout on the spot infront of them and they were happy with it. I dont really understand the point of the law other than you cant use salmonid's as bait. All in all i'd just say to cover your ass and dont keep anything alive =)

AnglingWes
12-11-2013, 07:39 PM
The law is to prevent culling of trout.

redneckpunk
12-11-2013, 07:47 PM
I had encountered this up on lake oroville with DFW doing a license/fish check. These were actual wardens and not fish counters and when they asked to see our fish and i pulled the trout out of my livewell ( no intention of keeping them live, the water was cold and i didnt have an ice chest so in it went) they told me that was illegal. I explained i had no idea and ofcourse obliged and killed the trout on the spot infront of them and they were happy with it. I dont really understand the point of the law other than you cant use salmonid's as bait. All in all i'd just say to cover your ass and dont keep anything alive =)

Had same experience at Oroville several years ago (Probably same officers). The wardens were cool about it and didnt cite us. We already had the boat on the trailer and were at the cleaning station. They saw us reaching into the live well pulling the fish out. The way they explained the reasoning for it was that it prevents anglers from tossing back small fish in favor of bigger fish throughout the day. They told us that the law applies for all species except bass during permitted events.

~RNP

IronClad
12-11-2013, 07:51 PM
That was the reason we got aswell, these guys were pretty sneaky cruising around the lake in a red deep V tracker. I was going to get huffy with them untill i saw the hats and sidearms LOL

salmonid
12-11-2013, 08:10 PM
you cant use salmonid's as bait.

Yep, IC! We hate that!!

Best,

William DFC
12-11-2013, 09:25 PM
I wonder why not keep trout alive and after measure it u can release it back to the water...

IronClad
12-11-2013, 09:42 PM
I wonder why not keep trout alive and after measure it u can release it back to the water...

because without immediate release it falls under the culling catagory

mxdad777
12-11-2013, 09:54 PM
I was fishing for kokanee at Stampede this past Memorial day and there were plenty of fish, but very small. I had my livewell on and aerator running. When we caught a decent sized koke, we would pull out a smaller one from the livewell and back it went. We had been doing this for a few hours when a boat came up from behind us. It was a Sheriff boat, but on board was also a State Fish & Game Warden. He asked us for our license then asked how we were doing. I told him fishing was great, but the fish were very small and so we are culling for larger fish. He said he knew that because they had been watching us for the last half hour. He then explained to me that keeping any salmonid alive on a boat was illegal. I told him I didn't know that and we would stop culling. He was really cool about it and didn't issue any citation. He then told us that if you want to release any salmonid, it has to be done outside the boat, but although legal, they frowned on people doing that. He said once a salmonid goes through a fight, their survival rate is very slim. He went on to say that the legal definition is once the fish crosses the gunnel of the boat, the fish is to be immediately killed and kept as part of your daily limit. You can't bring the fish on board, remove the hook and throw it back. Anyway, I learned a lesson that day and thankfully it didn't cost me any money.

redneckpunk
12-11-2013, 09:56 PM
I wonder why not keep trout alive and after measure it u can release it back to the water...

I dont believe trout, especially planters, are hardy enough to keep in a live well all day and survive being released. And planters, which is what you will find in these lakes, are considered "disposable" fish, bought for the purpose of providing our enjoyment

~RNP

Fisherman209
12-11-2013, 10:01 PM
Wow...I didn't mean to open a can of worms on here. However, there has been a lot of good info in these posts and it gives me a lot of food for thought for the competitions.

Sounds like the best bet is to release it if you think it's too small. Kill it and store it if you think it's big enough.

For any float tubers on here: How are you guys/gals storing your keepers while floating the lake for more trout ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

redneckpunk
12-11-2013, 10:20 PM
Wow...I didn't mean to open a can of worms on here. However, there has been a lot of good info in these posts and it gives me a lot of food for thought for the competitions.

Sounds like the best bet is to release it if you think it's too small. Kill it and store it if you think it's big enough.

For any float tubers on here: How are you guys/gals storing your keepers while floating the lake for more trout ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Let me give you a little more food for thought that may change your line of thinking. Last years Derby (a single event) at San Pablo was won by a 1.65lb trout. And if memory serves me correct there were only 3 fish weighed in 2 days of the derby. So maybe waiting for that lunker isnt always the best decision.

~RNP

alucardbear
12-11-2013, 11:29 PM
Yea man if i only was there. I would have taken a pic of that monster

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

BassJack
12-12-2013, 07:09 AM
Since this derby only allows the weigh in on one fish, culling is kind of a moot point. You can shake off any small fish at the side of the boat and keep up to five decent fish as part of your daily bag limit. Plenty of breathing room.

I can tell you this - if I fish any of the derbies my first fish is going into the cooler regardless of size. After that I'll keep any bigger fish or bleeders. This isn't the BASS Elite Series. If I can have a fun day of fishing and come out with five trout for the BBQ I'll be happy.

I've found that the best way to preserve fish for a derby like is is to immediately knock them out and store them in a cooler filled with ice water. As others have mentioned, transporting live trout is illegal.

Reel Fun
12-12-2013, 08:25 AM
Since this derby only allows the weigh in on one fish, culling is kind of a moot point. You can shake off any small fish at the side of the boat and keep up to five decent fish as part of your daily bag limit. Plenty of breathing room.

I can tell you this - if I fish any of the derbies my first fish is going into the cooler regardless of size. After that I'll keep any bigger fish or bleeders. This isn't the BASS Elite Series. If I can have a fun day of fishing and come out with five trout for the BBQ I'll be happy.

I've found that the best way to preserve fish for a derby like is is to immediately knock them out and store them in a cooler filled with ice water. As others have mentioned, transporting live trout is illegal.
The way I read it is that "shaking off" fish at the boat might be considered "culling" or C&R? I see this in Kokanee derbies all the time......at Melones during the 2 day Kokanee derby there are hundreds of small dead Kokanee floating all over because guys do not want to limit out in 30 min of fishing so they shake them off at the boat or net them...hold them...take the hook out and toss them back. I saw a few people doing this a couple years ago and the small koks were getting hammered by huge browns some over 10lbs!...RF

Reel Fun
12-12-2013, 08:29 AM
All California Dept. of Fish & Wildlife fishing regulations apply, including possession of a valid
California fishing license for everyone age 16 & up. Anglers must fish only with a closely attended
fishing rod. No hand lines or drag nets are allowed. Catch and release is not allowed. Snagging of fish
is prohibited. State limits of 5 trout per person shall be required of all participants. RF

Line Stretcher
12-12-2013, 10:52 AM
All California Dept. of Fish & Wildlife fishing regulations apply, including possession of a valid
California fishing license for everyone age 16 & up. Anglers must fish only with a closely attended
fishing rod. No hand lines or drag nets are allowed. Catch and release is not allowed. Snagging of fish
is prohibited. State limits of 5 trout per person shall be required of all participants. RF


That seems to answer the OP's question and leaves little to doubt.

Fisherman209
12-12-2013, 04:23 PM
I'd say these posts above me answer the question! Sounds like I'll be taking a small ice chest and keeping the first five I catch. Thanks all!

Reel Fun
12-12-2013, 06:30 PM
Kinda weird that they say to follow all DFW rules but then say no C&R? C&R trout is not illegal and at best very hard to near impossible for a derby to enforce so that's going be a honor thing. As far as culling fish from the livewell or stringer.....that's illegal for sure. Sounds like a great derby with a huge payout!! RF

CRABBY
12-12-2013, 07:09 PM
Kinda weird that they say to follow all DFW rules but then say no C&R? C&R trout is not illegal and at best very hard to near impossible for a derby to enforce so that's going be a honor thing. As far as culling fish from the livewell or stringer.....that's illegal for sure. Sounds like a great derby with a huge payout!! RFRonnie,looks like you keep the 1st five fish you get no matter what size an then turn in the biggest one!!!I guess.lol...:costumed-smiley-029

dilbeck
12-13-2013, 05:51 AM
Kinda weird that they say to follow all DFW rules but then say no C&R? C&R trout is not illegal and at best very hard to near impossible for a derby to enforce so that's going be a honor thing. As far as culling fish from the livewell or stringer.....that's illegal for sure. Sounds like a great derby with a huge payout!! RF

My guess is that when they said no C&R they actually meant no culling.

What reason would they have to not want people to C&R? Why would they be against it?

Will definitely be difficult to enforce C&R.

AnglingWes
12-13-2013, 07:22 AM
Until then C&R all you want. No law against it. Although the laws are intentionally written in a vague manner to give wardens leeway to interpret them. Maybe?

I love this train of thought. Following this logic, I'm going to spend the day tipping over every vending machine I can find onto myself. I know there is a sticker that clearly says not to right on the side of the machine, but there is no law specifically against vending tipping, just some convoluted personal injury mumbo jumbo. Who wants to join me?

Reel Fun
12-13-2013, 08:38 AM
There is a law called "wanton waste" that addresses C&R of fish that die. If you catch a fish and you release it dead or it swims off three feet and dies and you do not retrieve it and "bag it" you could be cited. C&R will never be against the law because trout fisherman practice it an many places and its recommended in some places like Melones where brown trout do not get stocked anymore and their release is recommended to keep the species in the lake or like Sonoma with the landlocked trout/steelhead. The issue of NO C&R needs to be cleared up before any derbies happen because like Bass Jack said about shaking off fish....that could be considered culling or C&R? Standard C&R means to land the fish then release it but I see a guy shaking them off at the boat (or bank) and then being disqualified for braking the rules of the derby? RF