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Line Stretcher
01-24-2014, 04:08 PM
Guess I'll head up to Lake Sonoma on Sunday. Not sure why but it beats hanging around with my thumb up my .... Can't catch fish if I don't go.

Brutus20
01-24-2014, 06:02 PM
I like your attitude. Good luck

.................Brutus...

Line Stretcher
01-25-2014, 03:18 PM
Well so much for going to the lake tomorrow. I just dropped my boat off at Marine Unlimited in Petaluma.

When I checked the oil I found I had a lot more than I did when I last changed it at 10 hours. The oil smelled like fuel so I called and took it right in. It's hard to say exactly what the cause is right now. When I see something like this and the motor is still under warranty I never look for the cause and most importantly I never suggest a cause to the mechanic.

Since it only has 8 hours on it since the last oil change at 10 hours it gained over a quart of oil. It's not the common stuck thermostat issue. I suspect it's either a cracked ring or piston issue.

From my experience with Yamaha, they like to see the problem first hand so they usually just ship a new powerhead and that's what I'm expecting to happen. I'll know as soon as Brandt gets a chance to look at it later next week.

Side Note: I use Yamaha 4M 10-30 oil just like the manual suggests so they can't say I used inferior oil. It costs more but in this case it might save me thousands of dollars. This is a 2013 F150 and they aint cheap.

Oh yeah, I guess I know "why not" now. LOL

Jetspray
01-25-2014, 04:47 PM
Well Steve I hope the outcome is rosy for you......Jetspray

Line Stretcher
01-25-2014, 05:16 PM
It should be Dave. Yamaha's warranty program is pretty solid. I'm pretty fortunate because I knew what it was when I saw it and didn't gaff it off and continue to use it.

As a side note to anyone that suspects they have a similar problem. Often the oil will visually look to be in perfect condition. However, if you smell oil from a fresh container and compare it to the smell of the engine oil, you will smell the difference and that difference is fuel. If you oil is old then it's liable to smell bad anyway so change your oil, run it for a few hours under load and then smell it again. If it smells like fuel and you have more oil than you put in, you have a problem.

fyrmedic707
01-25-2014, 11:11 PM
Google "4 strokes making oil". It's kind of a common problem with the newer 4 strokes. It seems that sometimes oil can get past the rings if they have not been properly seated, or a t stat issue, or even more common a fuel pump problem. I have a 20hp Honda that I am trying to get it to stop doing this.

Do you do a lot of trolling with this motor? I hear that can cause it too because the motor will not get up to temp and the rings will not expand, because the 4 strokes are so efficient. Hope they fix it and you can get back out there!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

outdoordude
01-26-2014, 06:59 AM
I had the same problem with my 15hp 4stroke evenrude. Turned out to be a "o" ring in the fuel pump. $45 and they threw in the o ring no charge, lol. Hope yours works out that way.

fyrmedic707
01-26-2014, 08:26 AM
I had the same problem with my 15hp 4stroke evenrude. Turned out to be a "o" ring in the fuel pump. $45 and they threw in the o ring no charge, lol. Hope yours works out that way.

From most everything I have read, its either been the rings or the fuel pump. I got my motor (2004 Honda BF20) from my father, who used it for maybe 20-30 hours total, then it sat for awhile. It was also laying on its side, the proper way to store it, but it was for over a year. So, I just changed out the fuel pump, fuel pump o-ring, fuel filter, and changed the oil 3 times. I ran it for about 15 minutes outside and it seemed alright. Headed out on Thursday so I will know for sure if its still doing it.

SGS, glad its under warranty, and I am sure they will figure it out. Wish mine was under warranty haha, instead its left up to me. When you find out what it was let us know. I am curious to know.

Line Stretcher
01-26-2014, 10:33 AM
In a four stroke fuel injected engine it could be several things. The oil is diluted and has lost a significant amount of viscosity and is up on the dipstick over a quart.

About two hours into the break in, the engine hydro locked momentarily when I attempted to start it. I let it sit to allow the pressure in the cylinder to subside and on the second attempt it started normally.

Because of that I changed the oil and filter after 5 hours and again at 10 hours and at 15 hours I saw no indications in the oil or compression that would lead me to believe that any damage had occurred. At 18 hours I discovered the higher than normal and diluted oil condition.

Fuel injected motors have electric fuel pumps and there is no direct connection to the oil supply like some motors that use crankcase pressure to operate a manual fuel pump.

There is basically 2 ways for fuel to get into the oil. Failed rings or a hole in the piston. I did not pull the plugs or do any investigative testing this time because I want the dealer to see those things first hand without and owner disturbances to muddy the waters.

My personal feeling is that it's a leaky injector that's flooding the cylinder and has washed the oil out and now the rings are no longer sealing. I'm not seeing any carbon in the oil because the cylinder is not firing.

Believe it or not, the IL4 and IL6 engines are so close to perfect in their design that you can have a cylinder not fire and you might not know it. If it was intermittently firing you would but if it's not firing at all you might not.

salmonid
01-26-2014, 10:41 AM
Steve, I've seen lots of threads about this. Usually it's a stuck thermostat and it's an easy fix.

Hope you get the boat back soon.

Best,

Line Stretcher
01-26-2014, 12:52 PM
Steve, I've seen lots of threads about this. Usually it's a stuck thermostat and it's an easy fix.

Hope you get the boat back soon.

Best,

Thanks for the input Sean. Making oil is a problem they're having with the V-Max SHO version of the IL4 F-150. It hasn't been a problem with the F-150 XA's. Brandt is about as good as they get at working on these motors. He and I cut our teeth in the racing world so we have a mutual respect for our skill levels. I'm pretty sure he'll just make a power head replacement happen. He doesn't settle for good enough and he knows I don't either.

Reel Fun
01-26-2014, 05:49 PM
For like $20 you can send in a oil sample to ALS (lab) and find out what the viscosity is and if there is any fuel dilution? It will not tell you the cause but it is good info to know. RF

Line Stretcher
01-26-2014, 06:56 PM
No need for me to do that but thanks for the suggestion. Maybe someone else can use the info.

fyrmedic707
01-26-2014, 09:59 PM
For like $20 you can send in a oil sample to ALS (lab) and find out what the viscosity is and if there is any fuel dilution? It will not tell you the cause but it is good info to know. RF

I know in my case it was obvious there was fuel in the oil. Very thin feeling, and when wiped on a paper towel smelled exactly like fuel. Not like oil at all. I think samples are good for other things though.

Line Stretcher
01-27-2014, 07:44 AM
I know in my case it was obvious there was fuel in the oil. Very thin feeling, and when wiped on a paper towel smelled exactly like fuel. Not like oil at all. I think samples are good for other things though.

Yep, when cold oil runs off the end of the dipstick, it's pretty clear what that there's a problem. I should know something by tomorrow.

Line Stretcher
01-30-2014, 07:01 PM
Well I was right to take it in. Right now there's no final verdict but there is a brand new motor on the boat. I pick it up tomorrow. Factory rep suspects a casting defect in the block but really doesn't know for sure.

I've seen it where a small piece of dirt in the mold gets into the casting and eventually gets washed out. I don't know if this is what happened or not and I'll probably never know.

I think any of the manufacturer's would have done the same thing so all I can offer up is why it makes sense to make sure you have a warranty.

Line Stretcher
01-31-2014, 07:41 PM
Boat is back home and good to go. Thanks to Brant Behler and Marine Unlimited in Petaluma, Ca. for the quick turnaround and great work.

49erbassman
01-31-2014, 07:46 PM
Great service and speed to have a new motor installed and back at home in week!!

Warranties are worth it with large dollar items that's for sure. Glad it worked out for you


Fish on!