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gegan
06-19-2014, 02:27 PM
I watched a grandpa catch over two limits of trout today while his grand kids were doing other things with grandma. Then the rest of the clan showed up and they took over the entire bank area again making me move further away. There were fish coming out without regard to limits. Called DFG, but doubt they catch them. They planted last weekend but probably most gone if this group showed up more than one day. Almost makes me want to quit fishing with people like this.


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LURKER916
06-19-2014, 02:30 PM
Yeah that sucks. But you handled it perfectly. Make a call an that's all. Good on you for reporting it.


Matt

lowery125
06-19-2014, 02:34 PM
That is the sad truth at a lot of lakes now. I have seen groups over fish all the time and call F&G but they cover so much area its hard for them to get every where. Completely frustrating that the few have so little regard for rules and regs. Makes me wonder what will be left for the youth who are just starting to fish. We can only hope that they wise up.

49erbassman
06-19-2014, 03:39 PM
Let the people at the lake know as well next time. Good job on reporting them.


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JoeReal
06-19-2014, 05:23 PM
Honestly, i have conflicting thoughts about this situation. If they have kids under 16 years, the grand dad can certainly help catch their limits very much like the rules in party boat limits even if passengers are unrelated. This keeps families intact, rather than be individually divided and separate instead of family team effort and hope to get the grand kids a chance at getting interested in fishing. For me, this will drive a wedge in family outing being destroyed by dogmatic rules just because we want to minimize competition on selfish grounds of having more chances at catching fish. If you so want the fish more than family time together or disrupting its enjoyment, i would rather buy the same farm raised trout at Costco, way much cheaper at the cost of my kids not having chances at enjoying the outdoors or showing enthusiasm for its enjoyment, at least in fishing. But that is just my opinion. I know real poaching does not respect family time nor regulations and it will be for illicit living.

fishingfrieda
06-19-2014, 05:35 PM
The gramps was putting up the pretense of his grandkids fishing so he could catch more. If your kids aren't going to man their poles and at the very least reel in the fish than really what are you teaching them? The poaching is being taught during "family time".
So what about the next family that comes out and the kids that really do stand with their poles and fish hard? It's OK that one man caught the fish that they could be catching?

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D Fish
06-19-2014, 05:35 PM
I watched a grandpa catch over two limits of trout today while his grand kids were doing other things with grandma. Then the rest of the clan showed up and they took over the entire bank area again making me move further away. There were fish coming out without regard to limits. Called DFG, but doubt they catch them. They planted last weekend but probably most gone if this group showed up more than one day. Almost makes me want to quit fishing with people like this.


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I would of let the man know also and told him DFG will be here shortly because i called them and sat here an watched u catch over your limit... When people hear that when there not abiding by the rules and regs, it tends to spook them pretty quick :smiley::smiley:..

JoeReal
06-19-2014, 05:39 PM
The gramps was putting up the pretense of his grandkids fishing so he could catch more. If your kids aren't going to man their poles and at the very least reel in the fish than really what are you teaching them? The poaching is being taught during "family time".
So what about the next family that comes out and the kids that really do stand with their poles and fish hard? It's OK that one man caught the fish that they could be catching?

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In party boats, it could happen that only one guy will catch the boat limit for the rest of the party and yet it is allowed.

JoeReal
06-19-2014, 05:43 PM
Please dont get me wrong. I am not necessarily against your opinions and do respect them. We have to make our DFG rules and regulation consistent and in spirit of conservation and we are counter testing them with real world scenarios that have not been specifically written down.

FTB530
06-19-2014, 05:47 PM
In party boats, it could happen that only one guy will catch the boat limit for the rest of the party and yet it is allowed.

It could happen, but it doesn't.

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salmonid
06-19-2014, 05:48 PM
I hate poachers.

You did what you could do.

Thanks for that & that is why we need more people out fishing and recreating in the outdoors!

Best,


I watched a grandpa catch over two limits of trout today while his grand kids were doing other things with grandma. Then the rest of the clan showed up and they took over the entire bank area again making me move further away. There were fish coming out without regard to limits. Called DFG, but doubt they catch them. They planted last weekend but probably most gone if this group showed up more than one day. Almost makes me want to quit fishing with people like this.

49erbassman
06-19-2014, 05:50 PM
Joe you can make it sound as professional as you want but let's face it, if he didn't call the kids over to catch there own fish we know what he was doing......bringing the kids along for a bigger limit. I see it all too often.

And if you pay to go on a party boat and let someone else catch your fish that's pretty stupid in my book. Just go buy your fish at the store.


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JoeReal
06-19-2014, 05:59 PM
Joe you can make it sound as professional as you want but let's face it, if he didn't call the kids over to catch there own fish we know what he was doing......bringing the kids along for a bigger limit. I see it all too often.

And if you pay to go on a party boat and let someone else catch your fish that's pretty stupid in my book. Just go buy your fish at the store.


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And this brings back to why we allow such things in our regulations in party boats?

Practically let's face it. In the case of grand dad with underage grand kids present around, it would be difficult to prove in court and would just waste taxpayers money. I have not known any successful prosecution case for such and rangers ignore such report when there are enough kids in the vicinity to disprove the limits violations.

But believe me, I am with you for the sake of honesty in sport fishing but these rules are not etched in stone and very costly to implement.

JoeReal
06-19-2014, 06:04 PM
In the two rod stamp alone, we dont have clear guidelines as to what constitute a closely attended rod. The same reasoning can be used and is therefore defensible for the case of grand dad with grand kids, along with the relaxed rules on party boat limits.

Am not trying to be a lawyer here nor professional. Just wanted to encourage each one of you to push for clarity in our DFG regulations for the benefit of all. This is a passion and hobby of mine, not a livelihood and want to follow rules for the benefit of all. If rules are in conflict, it needs to be rewritten for clarity and better understanding and practical world implementation. This doesn't profit me one bit and consumes my time but would do it to help benefit each other.

salmonid
06-19-2014, 06:07 PM
"Boat limits" are legal in the ocean and SF bay. Check out the saltwater regs on page 26-27. It is the same law in a number of other states with regard to ocean fishing.

Group shorefishing limits are not legal, however.

Best,


In party boats, it could happen that only one guy will catch the boat limit for the rest of the party and yet it is allowed.

Jfitalia
06-19-2014, 06:13 PM
Honestly, i have conflicting thoughts about this situation. If they have kids under 16 years, the grand dad can certainly help catch their limits very much like the rules in party boat limits even if passengers are unrelated. This keeps families intact, rather than be individually divided and separate instead of family team effort and hope to get the grand kids a chance at getting interested in fishing. For me, this will drive a wedge in family outing being destroyed by dogmatic rules just because we want to minimize competition on selfish grounds of having more chances at catching fish. If you so want the fish more than family time together or disrupting its enjoyment, i would rather buy the same farm raised trout at Costco, way much cheaper at the cost of my kids not having chances at enjoying the outdoors or showing enthusiasm for its enjoyment, at least in fishing. But that is just my opinion. I know real poaching does not respect family time nor regulations and it will be for illicit living.
Those kids still need to be fishing. They can't be out hiking or swimming. They did to be within a reasonable distance to the rods. what gramps was doing was poaching.

Your party boat example is mute because it proves my point. first off party boats abide by boat limits. Which above my quote has already been explained. Second the other anglers are still fishing or on the boat. which means they are within a reasonable distance.

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Jfitalia
06-19-2014, 06:14 PM
Please dont get me wrong. I am not necessarily against your opinions and do respect them. We have to make our DFG rules and regulation consistent and in spirit of conservation and we are counter testing them with real world scenarios that have not been specifically written down.
When was the last time you were on a party boat and this happened? I grew up on them and it never happened.

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FTB530
06-19-2014, 06:38 PM
Well not ALL party boats abide by limits, I saw with my own eyes the deck hand count out limits for each angler and had a pile of fish on deck, he fillet fish all the way back to Berkley While talking about making his his Corvette payment,years ago no cell phone, if I saw that today I would try to get DFW to meet the boat at the dock.

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fishingfrieda
06-19-2014, 06:45 PM
I'm pretty confident that if dfw had observed the original scenario given, gramps would have been ticketed and rightly so. Spin it all you want. What he did was illegal. I bet he even told the kids that they caught fish.

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49erbassman
06-19-2014, 06:49 PM
I have seen a warden watch a family of 4 fishing with 4 rods out. The wife and kids never touched, baited, cast or reeled in a pole. I bet with the pictures he took he would have no problem with a conviction


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Jfitalia
06-19-2014, 07:36 PM
Well not ALL party boats abide by limits, I saw with my own eyes the deck hand count out limits for each angler and had a pile of fish on deck, he fillet fish all the way back to Berkley While talking about making his his Corvette payment,years ago no cell phone, if I saw that today I would try to get DFW to meet the boat at the dock.

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I'm confused. Were the fish on deck extra? If so they count under the captain and deckhands

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FTB530
06-19-2014, 07:44 PM
I'm confused. Were the fish on deck extra? If so they count under the captain and deckhands

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Yes they were extra, I even told the guy I am stopping fishing I have my limit, he told to keep fishing we can get boat limits, after he sorted all the bags and gave us anglers the biggest fish there was a large pile on deck, I even asked him what they will do with those extra fish, he told me I will toss them over board, none went overboard except what was.left. after.he finished filleting the fish,if I had to guess he has at least 50lbs of fillets in four plastic bags . The captain and deck hands cant keep over a limit a piece , I did not count the fish on deck but a rough guess would be around 60 to 70 ,kinda.made.me.sick thinking about it later wondering if that happened on every trip they made.

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SierraJetSledder
06-20-2014, 05:40 AM
Typical story, no ranger no enforcement, shows how precious our LE officers are when they can be on scene, and how we could always use more of them. Don't worry about this family, with role models like that who knows what misfortunes will await them due to their own behaviors.

Plug-n-Jug
06-20-2014, 07:41 AM
Typical story, no ranger no enforcement, shows how precious our LE officers are when they can be on scene, and how we could always use more of them. Don't worry about this family, with role models like that who knows what misfortunes will await them due to their own behaviors.

+1, Like father, like son. Sad but true.

Troutoholic
06-20-2014, 10:50 AM
Just tell them DFG is on their way with a ticket so you better beat it jacka$$


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FresnoJack
06-20-2014, 12:41 PM
Families destroyed by fishing regulations? Really?

If you disagree with the specific regulation your solution is a political one. Contact your State Assemblyman and State Senator and express your concerns.

QUOTE=JoeReal;1019637]Honestly, i have conflicting thoughts about this situation. If they have kids under 16 years, the grand dad can certainly help catch their limits very much like the rules in party boat limits even if passengers are unrelated. This keeps families intact, rather than be individually divided and separate instead of family team effort and hope to get the grand kids a chance at getting interested in fishing. For me, this will drive a wedge in family outing being destroyed by dogmatic rules just because we want to minimize competition on selfish grounds of having more chances at catching fish. If you so want the fish more than family time together or disrupting its enjoyment, i would rather buy the same farm raised trout at Costco, way much cheaper at the cost of my kids not having chances at enjoying the outdoors or showing enthusiasm for its enjoyment, at least in fishing. But that is just my opinion. I know real poaching does not respect family time nor regulations and it will be for illicit living.[/QUOTE]

Reel Fun
06-20-2014, 01:11 PM
I was at Pardee many years ago on opening day. I was with my father & uncle. We caught several trout and would release the 1-2 lbers and keep the 3-5 lbers (barbless) I would walk up to the car and put 2-3 fish in the cooler at a time then go back fishing right next to my uncle & father. After the 3rd or 4th trip to the car a warden pulled up and thought he caught himself a poacher!! He said "I DEMAND YOU TO SHOW ME THE ICE CHEST!!" I told him OK and I pulled it out and he took out 12 fish and asked me for my ID. I said whats the problem? He said you have an over limit of fish! I said nope I only have 4! He said that he was watching me and no use arguing because was getting a ticket! A few minutes later my dad & uncle walk up an ask what is the problem? We explained he was wrong because we each had 4 and the limit was 5. He said he watched me catch 5! I told him he must have bad eyes because I had caught 10 or more? And I said OK I have 5 now what? He said you can not catch and keep 5 and continue to fish! I said show me in the regs! After showing me what I knew he was going to show me I told him I had switched lures and was fishing for bass which is what I did only because I could see a couple nice bass on the bottom. He only got mad after being proven wrong and after confisgating all 12 trout and wrote me a ticket anyway! The fine came in the mail and was $1200!! I easily beat it in court and that warden never showed up. I asked to get my fish back and was told that that was not possible and if I asked for that they would try to convict me or if I did not pursue the fish back they would drop the charge. I wanted to pursue it but with having to take time off work I just decided to drop it.

The reason I posted this was to tell people that its is a citable thing and its more $$$$ fine than you think!!

FTB530
06-20-2014, 01:19 PM
I was at Pardee many years ago on opening day. I was with my father & uncle. We caught several trout and would release the 1-2 lbers and keep the 3-5 lbers (barbless) I would walk up to the car and put 2-3 fish in the cooler at a time then go back fishing right next to my uncle & father. After the 3rd or 4th trip to the car a warden pulled up and thought he caught himself a poacher!! He said "I DEMAND YOU TO SHOW ME THE ICE CHEST!!" I told him OK and I pulled it out and he took out 12 fish and asked me for my ID. I said whats the problem? He said you have an over limit of fish! I said nope I only have 4! He said that he was watching me and no use arguing because was getting a ticket! A few minutes later my dad & uncle walk up an ask what is the problem? We explained he was wrong because we each had 4 and the limit was 5. He said he watched me catch 5! I told him he must have bad eyes because I had caught 10 or more? And I said OK I have 5 now what? He said you can not catch and keep 5 and continue to fish! I said show me in the regs! After showing me what I knew he was going to show me I told him I had switched lures and was fishing for bass which is what I did only because I could see a couple nice bass on the bottom. He only got mad after being proven wrong and after confisgating all 12 trout and wrote me a ticket anyway! The fine came in the mail and was $1200!! I easily beat it in court and that warden never showed up. I asked to get my fish back and was told that that was not possible and if I asked for that they would try to convict me or if I did not pursue the fish back they would drop the charge. I wanted to pursue it but with having to take time off work I just decided to drop it.

The reason I posted this was to tell people that its is a citable thing and its more $$$$ fine than you think!!

Those fish would have been pretty stinky!!!

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Jfitalia
06-20-2014, 01:24 PM
I was at Pardee many years ago on opening day. I was with my father & uncle. We caught several trout and would release the 1-2 lbers and keep the 3-5 lbers (barbless) I would walk up to the car and put 2-3 fish in the cooler at a time then go back fishing right next to my uncle & father. After the 3rd or 4th trip to the car a warden pulled up and thought he caught himself a poacher!! He said "I DEMAND YOU TO SHOW ME THE ICE CHEST!!" I told him OK and I pulled it out and he took out 12 fish and asked me for my ID. I said whats the problem? He said you have an over limit of fish! I said nope I only have 4! He said that he was watching me and no use arguing because was getting a ticket! A few minutes later my dad & uncle walk up an ask what is the problem? We explained he was wrong because we each had 4 and the limit was 5. He said he watched me catch 5! I told him he must have bad eyes because I had caught 10 or more? And I said OK I have 5 now what? He said you can not catch and keep 5 and continue to fish! I said show me in the regs! After showing me what I knew he was going to show me I told him I had switched lures and was fishing for bass which is what I did only because I could see a couple nice bass on the bottom. He only got mad after being proven wrong and after confisgating all 12 trout and wrote me a ticket anyway! The fine came in the mail and was $1200!! I easily beat it in court and that warden never showed up. I asked to get my fish back and was told that that was not possible and if I asked for that they would try to convict me or if I did not pursue the fish back they would drop the charge. I wanted to pursue it but with having to take time off work I just decided to drop it.

The reason I posted this was to tell people that its is a citable thing and its more $$$$ fine than you think!!
Why would you pursue to get 12 trout back? lol

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Reel Fun
06-20-2014, 01:56 PM
I was told they would preserve them and I told the warden he was wrong and we wanted our fish back! It was about 2 months until we got to court and I had my father and uncle with me who are both retired dept of corrections employees and I would not have lost. I had a statement from the manager at Pardee on my side. Just sucks that wardens like him exist. To proud to admit anything wrong. But people like this thread poach for real! I wonder if this POS grandpa had more than 1 pole or did he just catch them all on 1 rod?

PapaGreg
06-20-2014, 02:35 PM
Reel-Fun, bet I know who that warden was! I used to see people catch over their limit often at Pardee, a few years ago, I saw a ranger approach a group of people who had been reported, 4 of them had over 50 fish! That must have been a hefty fine.

When my grandsons are with me and get bored, their poles come out of the water until they want to fish again.
Glad you called the DFW!

Reel Fun
06-20-2014, 03:11 PM
This warden thought he had me dead to rights as he probably done many times before. I let him go on his little bust before I busted his bubble with my dad & uncle fishing with me. He just saw me make several trips to the car with 12 fish and assumed I was poaching. When proven to be wrong he took it personal.

FresnoJack
06-20-2014, 06:21 PM
Good idea to have the kids reel in their lines before they take off.

A few years ago I saw a man with 5 little kids fishing a a popular spot on the San Joaquin just outside Fresno. The kids got bored after only a few minutes and ran off leaving the Barbie-My Little Princess-Spider Man poles behind with the lines in the water.

There was a warden watching the whole time from a rise near the parking lot.

When the man went to leave he, of course, started reeling up the poles the kids had left behind. The instant the man touched the second pole the warden started down the hill. By the time the mans touched the third pole the warden had his citation book out.

He cited the man for fishing with more than 1 rod. (Apparently he did not have a second rod validation, not that it would have mattered to the warden once that man picked up the third pole)

It was the most chicken s*** action I have seen. I gave the man my card and asked that he please have me subpenaed for any trial should he choose to contest the citation.

Never heard any more about it.


Reel-Fun, bet I know who that warden was! I used to see people catch over their limit often at Pardee, a few years ago, I saw a ranger approach a group of people who had been reported, 4 of them had over 50 fish! That must have been a hefty fine.

When my grandsons are with me and get bored, their poles come out of the water until they want to fish again.
Glad you called the DFW!

bassmanben
06-20-2014, 10:30 PM
Good idea to have the kids reel in their lines before they take off.

A few years ago I saw a man with 5 little kids fishing a a popular spot on the San Joaquin just outside Fresno. The kids got bored after only a few minutes and ran off leaving the Barbie-My Little Princess-Spider Man poles behind with the lines in the water.

There was a warden watching the whole time from a rise near the parking lot.

When the man went to leave he, of course, started reeling up the poles the kids had left behind. The instant the man touched the second pole the warden started down the hill. By the time the mans touched the third pole the warden had his citation book out.

He cited the man for fishing with more than 1 rod. (Apparently he did not have a second rod validation, not that it would have mattered to the warden once that man picked up the third pole)

It was the most chicken s*** action I have seen. I gave the man my card and asked that he please have me subpenaed for any trial should he choose to contest the citation.

Never heard any more about it.
The warden was right to ticket the guy. The kids weren't fishing. The second they stopped, he should have reeled in the rods. I fish with my daughter, who is 2 1/2. she watches her rod, but doesn't really participate. I only fish to one limit (mine). There's no way what she is doing is considered "fishing". She's having fun and participating in fishing, but she doesn't need 5 fish of her own. I don't bring her to keep an extra 5 fish, I bring her so that she can learn about fishing and hopefully have fun doing so.

FresnoJack
06-21-2014, 12:07 AM
Would it have made a difference if he reeled up right after the kids left? Perhaps.

The warden watched as the entire incident unfolded. I suspect that he would have cited as soon as the guy touched the third rod without regard to any time lapse.

In the event, only about 5 minutes between the time the kids ran off and the man started reeling in.

Ironically, nobody caught anything. The issue of possession limits was therefor moot.

I thought a warning would have been sufficient.

Like you I introduced my daughter and now my grandson to fishing at early ages. The first few outings I did not bring a rod for myself. Better able to pay attention to what they were doing and keep them entertained.

I of course had a valid fishing license at all times.

My grandson is 9 and loves to fish. I have a second rod validation to cover any contingencies.

Possession limits have never been an issue. All of our fishing has been catch and release.


The warden was right to ticket the guy. The kids weren't fishing. The second they stopped, he should have reeled in the rods. I fish with my daughter, who is 2 1/2. she watches her rod, but doesn't really participate. I only fish to one limit (mine). There's no way what she is doing is considered "fishing". She's having fun and participating in fishing, but she doesn't need 5 fish of her own. I don't bring her to keep an extra 5 fish, I bring her so that she can learn about fishing and hopefully have fun doing so.

PapaGreg
06-21-2014, 04:57 AM
bassmanben, where you been hiding? If you're the same bassmanben, we used to run into each other at Pardee several years ago! Good to see you back on the boards.

Reel Fun
06-21-2014, 08:00 AM
I saw a warden give a warning for fishing with 2 rods when the other angler was not closely attending the 2nd rod. What he did was write with an ink pen on the license itself that a warning was issued on code #xxxx (whatever the code is?) so in the future if this guy gets asked to see his license for any reason the warden at that time will know he was warned about the 2 rods.

FresnoJack
06-21-2014, 11:20 AM
So the warden altered or defaced the license in violation of FGC section 1052? grin



I saw a warden give a warning for fishing with 2 rods when the other angler was not closely attending the 2nd rod. What he did was write with an ink pen on the license itself that a warning was issued on code #xxxx (whatever the code is?) so in the future if this guy gets asked to see his license for any reason the warden at that time will know he was warned about the 2 rods.

Dickies
06-21-2014, 08:53 PM
I was at Pardee many years ago on opening day. I was with my father & uncle. We caught several trout and would release the 1-2 lbers and keep the 3-5 lbers (barbless) I would walk up to the car and put 2-3 fish in the cooler at a time then go back fishing right next to my uncle & father. After the 3rd or 4th trip to the car a warden pulled up and thought he caught himself a poacher!! He said "I DEMAND YOU TO SHOW ME THE ICE CHEST!!" I told him OK and I pulled it out and he took out 12 fish and asked me for my ID. I said whats the problem? He said you have an over limit of fish! I said nope I only have 4! He said that he was watching me and no use arguing because was getting a ticket! A few minutes later my dad & uncle walk up an ask what is the problem? We explained he was wrong because we each had 4 and the limit was 5. He said he watched me catch 5! I told him he must have bad eyes because I had caught 10 or more? And I said OK I have 5 now what? He said you can not catch and keep 5 and continue to fish! I said show me in the regs! After showing me what I knew he was going to show me I told him I had switched lures and was fishing for bass which is what I did only because I could see a couple nice bass on the bottom. He only got mad after being proven wrong and after confisgating all 12 trout and wrote me a ticket anyway! The fine came in the mail and was $1200!! I easily beat it in court and that warden never showed up. I asked to get my fish back and was told that that was not possible and if I asked for that they would try to convict me or if I did not pursue the fish back they would drop the charge. I wanted to pursue it but with having to take time off work I just decided to drop it.

The reason I posted this was to tell people that its is a citable thing and its more $$$$ fine than you think!!
Wow, this is surprising to me. Every warden I've ever dealt with since I started fishing has been really cool and friendly to me. Maybe it's because I'm not good enough to ever catch that many fish

bretmoua
06-21-2014, 09:55 PM
That's one bad grandpa. Maybe a sequel will come out real soon. LOL

Reel Fun
06-22-2014, 06:50 AM
So the warden altered or defaced the license in violation of FGC section 1052? grin



Yep! When the warden left I talked to the guy and he showed me his license and the warden wrote "warned code #xxxx and the date.

gegan
06-23-2014, 04:50 PM
Sorry I posted this. I saw the guy cast out four lines and pull in over 10 trout. End of story.


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salmonid
06-23-2014, 05:25 PM
Don't be! I bet someone reading this will think twice about doing likewise.

Best,


Sorry I posted this.

Jfitalia
06-23-2014, 05:32 PM
That's one bad grandpa. Maybe a sequel will come out real soon. LOL
I see what you did there. [emoji41]

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drinkinbuddy
06-23-2014, 06:16 PM
Sorry I posted this. I saw the guy cast out four lines and pull in over 10 trout. End of story.


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Dont be sorry, this topic is relevant and should be discussed. I do admit its raw meat for the crowd in a sense but it has it's place. Glad you shared.