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fish.on
12-02-2014, 12:11 PM
Anyone have experience with using a spiral wrapped rod? I've ordered a calstar bt270 blank and was wanting to do a spiral wrap on it. But was looking to see if I could get some feedback of some who have fished these style of rods. Also if so if anyone could help with a guide layout would be great.
Throwing in a pic of a oldie but goodie sabre rod I re wrapped for my wife, I left the original under wrap and replaced the over wrap. Looks like cotton candy now.

fish.on
12-02-2014, 01:39 PM
Example of spiral wrap rod im talking about.

Line Stretcher
12-02-2014, 01:40 PM
Here you go: http://www.acidrod.com/files/degreewheel_wInstructions.pdf

fish.on
12-02-2014, 02:47 PM
Thank you, have you had any experience with these rods?

Fishmeister
12-02-2014, 03:10 PM
I have a Lance's spiral salmon and a custom rod that I had made spiral on a 3wt fly rod. For trolling rods I think it helps load the rods better but honestly it isn't much difference. I don't think I would pay extra for it. (Again)

Line Stretcher
12-02-2014, 03:50 PM
I've had a few over the years but I wouldn't say they were my go to rods.

Quick history:

Here are several definitions covering variations of the name, taken from the rodbuilding.org glossary:

Acid Wrap -
"Another term for the spiral wrap. The term originated on the West Coast when one proponent of the wrap "Jim Racela" was said to have been on "acid" when he wrapped his rod in spiral fashion."

Spiral Wrap -
"A method for taking the line to the bottom of the rod on conventional casting type rods. Results in a rod which will not twist under load and is inherently stable."

Robert's Wrap -
"Another term for the spiral wrap named after rod builder Chuck Roberts, another proponent of spiral wrapping for casting rods."

All the reasons that the wrap was brought about are no longer issues since we now have a very definable spine and can use a offset reel seat to accomplish the same thing. The Lamiglas Si series rods are a perfect example of how to make a rod that doesn't twist under load without spiral wrapping it.

ghostfish_slayer
12-02-2014, 08:46 PM
the torque from the line on the guides when it is under a load is what wants to pull the guides under the rod.. it has not much to do with the spine.. the spine is merely nothing.. the taller the guides off the center axis/rod the more torque pulling the guides/rod back down. i have done a few.. my latest was my bass rod using the simple bumper spiral.. works fine.. cast fine..

Line Stretcher
12-02-2014, 10:11 PM
I would have to disagree. A simple spine test will show you almost immediately if a rod is going to torque. Take a Clairus rod and locate the spine and you'll clearly see which way the rod will torque.

If you do the same thing with a Si you'll notice how the guides are perfectly opposite the spine and how the slightly offset reel seat counters the natural offset of your wrist.

Take that rod and put a Diawa Steeze on it and I doubt you'll find a more exciting fishing rod for chasing steelhead. I've got an Si and a IMX both setup like that and I have zero torque.

This was posted using Tapatalk.

ghostfish_slayer
12-03-2014, 11:17 AM
"Preventing Rod Twist - Fly Angler's OnLine"

Here's a question from the September/October 1998 - Volume 1 - Issue #4 issue of RodMaker magazine: "My question concerns where line guides should be located in relation to a blank's spine to prevent the rod from twisting when fighting a fish. Should I locate them on, or underneath the effective spine." Jim . . . Greensboro, NC
http://flyanglersonline.com/features/rodbuilding/tips/rmcover35.gif (http://flyanglersonline.com/features/rodbuilding/tips/rt52.php)
My answer if going to shock a lot of people, but most of the information printed about the spine of a blank really goes out the window under actual fishing conditions. Believe it or not, under tension the line will always seek the lowest point on the rod. This is another way of saying that if left to its own devices, any rod under pressure will always spin, irrespective of where the guides are located in relation to the spine, to a point where the guides will be on the bottom of the rod.
I know this goes against conventional wisdom, but it's definitely true. You can prove this to yourself with a simple test. Rig a blank so that the guides are located on the spine and run a line through the works, fastening the line to the blank about where the reel seat would be. Now place the whole affair in a spine finder. Pull down on the line where it exits the tip-top and the guides will spin to the bottom. Now put the guides 180-degrees opposite of the spine and again run a line through them and pull down. The result? The guides will spin to the bottom again! Now try putting the guides at 90-degrees to the spine and perform the test once more. Yes, the guides will again spin to the bottom of the rod! Of course, this is exactly the opposite of what will happen if you use your hand to pressure the tip of the blank when locating the spine, but when you're fighting a fish, the pressure on the rod comes from the line, not anybody's hand.
So, to answer your question you must realize that all casting rods, with guides located on top of the blank, will want to twist 180-degrees no matter how you located the guides relative to the spine. Spinning and fly rods won't try to twist, because the guides are already at the lowest point. So am I saying to disregard the spine? Not at all. It is important to place the guides either on, or opposite the spine for best performance. But, instead of worrying about the rod wanting to twist, decide if you want the blank's slightly stiffer side to be used for fighting the fish or for casting, and place the guides accordingly. And do remember, that a blanks's soft side (the effective spine) is not always located exactly 180-degrees opposite from the blank's hard side.
And for those of you who think I'm crazy - please try the test mentioned above. It will completely change your opinion concerning everything you've ever read about the spine of a blank! ~ Tom Kirkman Publishers note:

ghostfish_slayer
12-03-2014, 11:21 AM
i would love to fish with that steeze and si though sounds like a super light super sensitive no fatigue fish all day kind of tool..

Grncrestliner
12-03-2014, 12:45 PM
If you were to troll with a spiral wrapped rod out the side of the boat wouldn't it need to be wrapped one way for the right side of the boat and the other direction for the left side of the boat? I know very little about the spiral wrapped rods but when I troll I have rods out both sides of the boat and of course on a baitcaster the guides are on top. When a fish hits the rod gets bent sideways rather drastically. If the guides were wrapped so they were towards the front of the boat it would seem like the rod would really want to twist. If rod was wrapped so the guides were to the rear of the boat that could work well. I think I will stick with guides on top. My favorite rod for trout trolling is a 3 weight 9' blank tied as a baitcaster by a friend of mine. Lots of fun on trout.
Rods fished straight out the back would not matter which direction they were wrapped. But then again like I said I know very little about spiral wrapped rods.
John

Jfitalia
12-03-2014, 01:03 PM
"Preventing Rod Twist - Fly Angler's OnLine"

Here's a question from the September/October 1998 - Volume 1 - Issue #4 issue of RodMaker magazine: "My question concerns where line guides should be located in relation to a blank's spine to prevent the rod from twisting when fighting a fish. Should I locate them on, or underneath the effective spine." Jim . . . Greensboro, NC
http://flyanglersonline.com/features/rodbuilding/tips/rmcover35.gif (http://flyanglersonline.com/features/rodbuilding/tips/rt52.php)
My answer if going to shock a lot of people, but most of the information printed about the spine of a blank really goes out the window under actual fishing conditions. Believe it or not, under tension the line will always seek the lowest point on the rod. This is another way of saying that if left to its own devices, any rod under pressure will always spin, irrespective of where the guides are located in relation to the spine, to a point where the guides will be on the bottom of the rod.
I know this goes against conventional wisdom, but it's definitely true. You can prove this to yourself with a simple test. Rig a blank so that the guides are located on the spine and run a line through the works, fastening the line to the blank about where the reel seat would be. Now place the whole affair in a spine finder. Pull down on the line where it exits the tip-top and the guides will spin to the bottom. Now put the guides 180-degrees opposite of the spine and again run a line through them and pull down. The result? The guides will spin to the bottom again! Now try putting the guides at 90-degrees to the spine and perform the test once more. Yes, the guides will again spin to the bottom of the rod! Of course, this is exactly the opposite of what will happen if you use your hand to pressure the tip of the blank when locating the spine, but when you're fighting a fish, the pressure on the rod comes from the line, not anybody's hand.
So, to answer your question you must realize that all casting rods, with guides located on top of the blank, will want to twist 180-degrees no matter how you located the guides relative to the spine. Spinning and fly rods won't try to twist, because the guides are already at the lowest point. So am I saying to disregard the spine? Not at all. It is important to place the guides either on, or opposite the spine for best performance. But, instead of worrying about the rod wanting to twist, decide if you want the blank's slightly stiffer side to be used for fighting the fish or for casting, and place the guides accordingly. And do remember, that a blanks's soft side (the effective spine) is not always located exactly 180-degrees opposite from the blank's hard side.
And for those of you who think I'm crazy - please try the test mentioned above. It will completely change your opinion concerning everything you've ever read about the spine of a blank! ~ Tom Kirkman Publishers note:



I didn't read this because it's too long. However you never make a bad post. So I went ahead and "liked" it. Lol

Line Stretcher
12-03-2014, 01:17 PM
i would love to fish with that steeze and si though sounds like a super light super sensitive no fatigue fish all day kind of tool..

It is a dream. My IMX with a Core 50/51 on it is also a dream but just about 2oz heavier. My IMX is an original unfinished old school not the Shimano/G-Loomis rods that are being made now.

Grncrestliner
12-03-2014, 03:09 PM
Jfitalia, I have no idea who but someone is bound to comment about you having a "short" attention span if that article is too long for you to read.
John

Hey that was a hanging curve ball if I have ever seen one.

ghostfish_slayer
12-03-2014, 03:14 PM
i don't think it would matter what the side of the boat it is on as the line pulls down it might lean one way or the other a little but it is pulling down on the rod keeping it there... what might come into play a little is which side the reel handle is in regards to the side the spiral goes.. i offset my first guide to reel on my simple bumper spiral so the transition is a little easier between the first, the bumper and 180 under.. the thing i don't like is i put them on the side my reel handle is on so when i reel sometimes my hands/fingers go numb pinched nerve or something it just slips a little and it wants to flip all the way over from the weight of the reel handle gear case side.. i think if the spiral was going the other side from the handle it might help me a little more as the line would be pulling the rod the other way.. might just hold it there.. have to try it..

ghostfish_slayer
12-03-2014, 03:15 PM
Jfitalia, I have no idea who but someone is bound to comment about you having a "short" attention span if that article is too long for you to read.
John

Hey that was a hanging curve ball if I have ever seen one.

lol funny

fish.on
12-04-2014, 02:26 PM
So after looking into more info on these style of rods I decided I would take this old lci striker I got and stripped the guides off and did a spiral guide wrap on it before I go and do it to a brand new blank. Now I just gotta get on some fish and see how it works out. Thanks for the info

ghostfish_slayer
12-04-2014, 09:48 PM
old mook rod