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fishmaster20200
07-30-2017, 10:10 AM
Just wanted to say the sierra experience is so much different than even 5-10 years ago, never seen so many people before, so much garbage, so many new rules.

burninfuel
07-30-2017, 12:11 PM
it was suppose to be a secret, but word got out

fishwrong2
07-30-2017, 01:04 PM
Places get busy no doubt. There are still lots of quiet places to be found, but it does take some work at times.

Don't know if the shortened season has condensed people this year more than others. Probably just wishful thinking. Get out and enjoy it regardless, still beats the city.

Jetspray
07-30-2017, 02:07 PM
When people have very little funds to play the global visit, they tend to stay at home or go close to home. Califeenia is driving people to work long hours for little results, housing prices are astronomical, taxes are out of this world and have to be paid, food is very expensive and so is living, you work long hours to have very little to have to enjoy with your family. Guess what you go camping, but none of the folks know jack about doing so. Many of them are two days away from a bike or a rickshaw. Enjoy the results and thank Moonbeam and the Democraps.........Jetspray

CRABBY
07-30-2017, 02:13 PM
Well judging from what I've personally seen its a lot of our younger generation,they're more mobile,have more off road toys to drive around an spread their garbage.The majority have an "I Don't Care Attitude"...Some of em will attempt to put some of the trash in plastic bags,tie em up all neat an then leave em !!!They then rot an there goes the garbage. In reg.campgrounds the crap is usually picked up.Then ya have the reject low life scum that dump their household garbage where they can,many times off a bridge into the water below....Fishermen/women,hunters etc. also do a lot of damage as many here know.We have people here who care about stuff an pick up crap all the time an also organize clean up parties with our members........:concern:

Jetspray
07-30-2017, 02:36 PM
+1 Don I used to mountain bike back in the late 80's early 90's and am sure that nothing has changed. Those who are messy boys and girls as children are pigs when it comes to the wilderness. They whine like babies about saving the environment and then proceed to crap all over it, they want unlimited free energy with no gasoline/diesel vehicles and want electrical special vehicles powered by solar panels and windmills, then crap all over the place and fill their garbage cans with junk they throw away with no regard of what happens to it or even how they crap is manufactured. Know why? Because they are highly educated low life idiots who follow a massive amount of fake news and have no idea what a dewy decimal system is.........Jetspray

ampm
07-30-2017, 02:49 PM
I distinctly remember watching a commercial about 20 years ago where these douchebags in a 4 whd dodge were plowing through a river, just tearing up the forest. It was like "yah look how cool we are", and i thought well there it goes, every ahole is gonna run out and get some 4wd to go offroad.

Captain Compassion
07-30-2017, 02:54 PM
The northern part of Mono County isn't so bad. A year ago I went down to Convict Lake and there were more people on paddle boards yaks and such than fishermen.

The closer to LA the bigger the crowd.

CC

Jetspray
07-30-2017, 02:57 PM
I distinctly remember watching a commercial about 20 years ago where these douchebags in a 4 whd dodge were plowing through a river, just tearing up the forest. It was like "yah look how cool we are", and i thought well there it goes, every ahole is gonna run out and get some 4wd to go offroad.+1 I agree, there are many places that are defined to be offroad so that they can play with their toys. When it comes to the actual wilderness they loose it. I have driven by many encampments here in Nevada and noticed they keep things to a minimum, mostly due to the fact that they are hunters supplementing their food supply and wanting to come back to the same. They kind of know that less is more......Jetspray

Jetspray
07-30-2017, 02:59 PM
The northern part of Mono County isn't so bad. A year ago I went down to Convict Lake and there were more people on paddle boards yaks and such than fishermen.

The closer to LA the bigger the crowd.

CC
Richard I would like to say that things are changing quickly and the baby boomers are about to boom the state with all sorts of crap, mostly the LA crowd........Jetspray

panther
07-30-2017, 04:18 PM
I'll add a different perspective. I think that social media (people constantly taking pictures and making videos) has not been good for the outdoors. "Look at me", "Look at me"...acting wild and crazy seems to have infiltrated our society. I'm 70 years old now, but even when I was a young adult I never yelled and screamed and made a big production over catching a fish. I always have liked catching a good fish, but realized that if I wanted to catch another one, it would be better to stay more quiet and stealthy. Even on TV fishing shows, people need to yell and scream (not like the old days with Bill Dance, Roland Martin and Shaw Grigsby). Just saying....

Owlman2
07-30-2017, 05:09 PM
A certain percentage of people are simply scumbags...always have been...always will be. They will always be there to take advantage of a tolerant society to steal, spread their trash around, and basically live as parasites off of productive members of society who behave responsibly.

What we are seeing recently, is not a change in human behavior, it is just the result of increasing population. The percentage of lowlifes is still roughly the same, but there are more of them proportionate to the growing population, and they are getting more densely packed into the available space.

Combine that with increasingly lax laws and law enforcement, at least in California, so the parasites are becoming more and more bold and entitled.

That's my take. Spoken like a typical curmudgeon I suppose.

MKE
07-30-2017, 05:10 PM
It has changed in the last 10 years with more people and their trash probably the effect of social media like panther said. But there's a lot of places to go to be alone and catch fish. I have always owned a 44 truck and it is a key tool. If you can drive a prius there chances are they'll be people, trash, and truck trout.

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CAL.NDN
07-30-2017, 05:12 PM
+10 panther i been saying this for a few year's now since all this social media came about.

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Jetspray
07-30-2017, 09:45 PM
I'll add a different perspective. I think that social media (people constantly taking pictures and making videos) has not been good for the outdoors. "Look at me", "Look at me"...acting wild and crazy seems to have infiltrated our society. I'm 70 years old now, but even when I was a young adult I never yelled and screamed and made a big production over catching a fish. I always have liked catching a good fish, but realized that if I wanted to catch another one, it would be better to stay more quiet and stealthy. Even on TV fishing shows, people need to yell and scream (not like the old days with Bill Dance, Roland Martin and Shaw Grigsby). Just saying....Gee this sounds very familiar to me, it is not a competition it is just doing what you enjoy as far as I am concerned. The old Burma Shave signs are replaced by a small screen in your pocket and really stupid sayings........Jetspray

Jetspray
07-30-2017, 09:47 PM
A certain percentage of people are simply scumbags...always have been...always will be. They will always be there to take advantage of a tolerant society to steal, spread their trash around, and basically live as parasites off of productive members of society who behave responsibly.

What we are seeing recently, is not a change in human behavior, it is just the result of increasing population. The percentage of lowlifes is still roughly the same, but there are more of them proportionate to the growing population, and they are getting more densely packed into the available space.

Combine that with increasingly lax laws and law enforcement, at least in California, so the parasites are becoming more and more bold and entitled.

That's my take. Spoken like a typical curmudgeon I suppose.I agree just look at what the illegals and pot growing has done to the environment (including streams for fish), it ain't so pretty and I am thinking not too healthy for those who need medications of that sort........Jetspray

Jetspray
07-30-2017, 09:50 PM
It has changed in the last 10 years with more people and their trash probably the effect of social media like panther said. But there's a lot of places to go to be alone and catch fish. I have always owned a 44 truck and it is a key tool. If you can drive a prius there chances are they'll be people, trash, and truck trout.

+1 but after going backwoods to do some prospecting you need to carry a bazooka, I did have a run in a few years ago, but I had a loaded 44 mag on the seat and the fellas did not want a shoot out........Jetspray

FresnoJack
07-30-2017, 10:19 PM
You should have seen it 50 years ago! grin


Just wanted to say the sierra experience is so much different than even 5-10 years ago, never seen so many people before, so much garbage, so many new rules.

Jetspray
07-31-2017, 03:17 AM
You should have seen it 50 years ago! grin+1 no Hwy 80, very small roads through the mountains, no jet travel to speak of, busses and trains were top of public transportation, no internet just phones that weighed a ton and all were with cords, black and white tv with 3 channels available etc etc etc......Jetspray

hooks
07-31-2017, 05:59 AM
+1 no Hwy 80, very small roads through the mountains, no jet travel to speak of, busses and trains were top of public transportation, no internet just phones that weighed a ton and all were with cords, black and white tv with 3 channels available etc etc etc......Jetspray



http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/stuffmomnevertoldyou-86-2013-12-fly-me.jpg

Owlman2
07-31-2017, 06:42 AM
It remains true though....if you are willing to walk a mile+....particularly over broken terrain (no trail) to an area boats and such cannot access....you can still get away from 99% of the problems discussed in this thread.

If you are willing to walk 2+ miles, you might as well be in the wilderness as you will see few people, and even less trash because people willing to walk a distance generally are not lazy slobs who drop their garbage everywhere.

Most parasitic slobs are very lazy. Fortunately.

ampm
07-31-2017, 07:56 AM
Jeyspray!! Burma Shave!! lol, I forgot those, used to love 'em. Riding with my pops, heading out to a backwoods pond in East Texas...He knew these farmers that would have a pond and a coffee can nailed to a fence post where you could put a dollar in and go fish. I'd have a can of night crawlers I dug out of the backyard, big fat old things, like 8" long!! He always threw a purple plastic worm or a jitterbug. Dang...good memories.

Nelsons
07-31-2017, 09:35 PM
I keep asking myself the same thing. There are just more people than we had years ago. I remember one place I use to hunt a lot. It looked like an old horse trailer convention on the deer season opener. Last year only two horse trailers, but cars were parking in the overflow outside the main parking area. Not hunters, all backpackers.

MKE
07-31-2017, 09:46 PM
I keep asking myself the same thing. There are just more people than we had years ago. I remember one place I use to hunt a lot. It looked like an old horse trailer convention on the deer season opener. Last year only two horse trailers, but cars were parking in the overflow outside the main parking area. Not hunters, all backpackers.All you have to do is drive past the prius people park and fish.

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chubbswheeler
08-01-2017, 11:31 AM
This is why I'm having such a hard time replacing our Jeep. The new vehicle has to meet a series of requirements and one is to make it to my favorite drive to lake which a non-lifted vehicle wouldn't stand a chance. Once there it's my own private trout pond. P.s. it's located real close to Prius country!

Waterdog
08-01-2017, 02:18 PM
The garbage strewn about and lack of respect for Mother Nature is due to the changes over the last 60 years to our culture and society. Back when I was a kid the majority of people around where I lived (Oakland) fished, hunted, camped or all three. Families were still 90 plus percent 2 parent families. Most dads taught their sons and sometimes their daughters to fish, hunt, camp and took their kids afield on camping and fishing weekends and vacations. They were taught how to do these things and were taught the wonders of mother nature and to respect our precious natural resources. Kids learned to enjoy the outdoors and to treat it kindly. My dad was a true outdoorsman, a fisherman, hunter, camper, naturalist and loved and respected the wilderness. He started taking me out camping and hunting before the age of 5. Caught my first fish (a trout) when I was around 4 1/2 . 64 years later I still remember that vividly. That started me off on a life rich in the outdoor experience. My parents also instilled in me basic values like the golden rule, the 10 commandments and many many others. Because of the way I was raised I couldn't imagine leaving a single piece of trash in the forest, lakes or any where else. The wilderness is kind of like my church and when I'm out there I feel closer to God, nature is an affirmation of the existence of God.

Now a days more and more children aren't being exposed to the outdoors. Most modern young fathers are not outdoor oriented, they don't teach their kids to fish and hunt and to camp because they weren't taught. They don't instill basic values in their kids like I was taught. So today when you see a bunch of people in a crowded camp ground most of them are amateurs, they don't know jack about the outdoors, they have no respect for Mother Nature. They don't know the difference between a possum and a red fox, or a bird of prey and a pigeon, they don't know a cedar from a fir and they don't care. Thus no knowledge of or respect for nature and the lack of basic values you have a group who litters and leaves their crap where ever they please, they don't care. Then you have the subhuman lowlifes and that is a whole discussion in it's self. I believe the lowlife population is growing faster than the general population. Lowlifes are a step down from Neanderthals, they don't obey laws or rules and they don't care, so leaving their beer bottles and other garbage on the ground when they leave is simply normal behavior for them.
I think the easily accessible wilderness areas will continue to suffer litter and destruction and the more remote areas will mostly remain somewhat pristine. Although a few years ago at a fairly remote mountain lake in about 3' of water I spotted a Bud can. I waded in and removed it. Pissed me off and also made me sad.

PMR#9
08-01-2017, 02:47 PM
Nothing angers me more than picking up empty salmon egg or power bait jars .

Grncrestliner
08-01-2017, 03:10 PM
Teaching the next generation (or anyone with you) to put the empty bottles and wrappers back into a container is something I do all the time in my boat or anywhere. A few weeks ago I had my 2 grandsons on the boat with me. They emptied a water bottle or 2 and then didn't know what to do with the empties, I told then to put it back in the ice chest. If it fit while full it will fit empty. Same thing with the Granola bar wrappers. Back into the lunch bag. I just don't understand how people can carry full cans and bottles to someplace but apparently empty they are too heavy to put into a container. ?? Like someone said earlier here I have been to a lot of camping areas where there is NO garbage pick up and see bags of garbage sitting around that the bears just spread everywhere. If you had it in a bag why couldn't you take it with you????
The habit of picking up after yourself has to be taught early but in todays world making someone do something they don't want to do is politically wrong so the kids don't pick up after themselves.

As far as more people go then yes there are way more people in the hills than there was 30 years ago. Partly because there are simply more people and partly because there are no secret spots you can drive to any longer. If it is easy to get to then it gets overrun with people. The internet has not helped those out of the way places stay great fishing spots.
If someone posts on here about having a good trip then everyone wants to know where, how deep, what color and so on. Tough to think that any location will remain good if it is small. If it is a large body of water well post away. Stocked trout are a little different you might as well post about those since it is a put and take anyway.

CrappieJed
08-01-2017, 03:45 PM
The garbage strewn about and lack of respect for Mother Nature is due to the changes over the last 60 years to our culture and society. Back when I was a kid the majority of people around where I lived (Oakland) fished, hunted, camped or all three. Families were still 90 plus percent 2 parent families. Most dads taught their sons and sometimes their daughters to fish, hunt, camp and took their kids afield on camping and fishing weekends and vacations. They were taught how to do these things and were taught the wonders of mother nature and to respect our precious natural resources. Kids learned to enjoy the outdoors and to treat it kindly. My dad was a true outdoorsman, a fisherman, hunter, camper, naturalist and loved and respected the wilderness. He started taking me out camping and hunting before the age of 5. Caught my first fish (a trout) when I was around 4 1/2 . 64 years later I still remember that vividly. That started me off on a life rich in the outdoor experience. My parents also instilled in me basic values like the golden rule, the 10 commandments and many many others. Because of the way I was raised I couldn't imagine leaving a single piece of trash in the forest, lakes or any where else. The wilderness is kind of like my church and when I'm out there I feel closer to God, nature is an affirmation of the existence of God.

Now a days more and more children aren't being exposed to the outdoors. Most modern young fathers are not outdoor oriented, they don't teach their kids to fish and hunt and to camp because they weren't taught. They don't instill basic values in their kids like I was taught. So today when you see a bunch of people in a crowded camp ground most of them are amateurs, they don't know jack about the outdoors, they have no respect for Mother Nature. They don't know the difference between a possum and a red fox, or a bird of prey and a pigeon, they don't know a cedar from a fir and they don't care. Thus no knowledge of or respect for nature and the lack of basic values you have a group who litters and leaves their crap where ever they please, they don't care. Then you have the subhuman lowlifes and that is a whole discussion in it's self. I believe the lowlife population is growing faster than the general population. Lowlifes are a step down from Neanderthals, they don't obey laws or rules and they don't care, so leaving their beer bottles and other garbage on the ground when they leave is simply normal behavior for them.
I think the easily accessible wilderness areas will continue to suffer litter and destruction and the more remote areas will mostly remain somewhat pristine. Although a few years ago at a fairly remote mountain lake in about 3' of water I spotted a Bud can. I waded in and removed it. Pissed me off and also made me sad.
vert good dog, as usual...but something you said

(They were taught how to do these things and were taught the wonders of mother nature and to respect our precious natural resources. Kids learned to enjoy the outdoors and to treat it kindly)

i agree, but you left something out, you got real close.

Fathers did teach their kids better way of life and respect not just for the great outdoors but life itself.

I will add, Fathers were not afraid and we're proud besides being their duty, they taught their kids about God. This is a wonderful teaching that opens a great and wonderful life to grow with!

CRABBY
08-01-2017, 04:09 PM
Now a days more and more children aren't being exposed to the outdoors. Most modern young fathers are not outdoor oriented, they don't teach their kids to fish and hunt and to camp because they weren't taught. They don't instill basic values in their kids like I was taught. So today when you see a bunch of people in a crowded camp ground most of them are amateurs, they don't know jack about the outdoors, they have no respect for Mother Nature. They don't know the difference between a possum and a red fox, or a bird of prey and a pigeon, they don't know a cedar from a fir and they don't care. Thus no knowledge of or respect for nature and the lack of basic values you have a group who litters and leaves their crap where ever they please, they don't care. Then you have the subhuman lowlifes and that is a whole discussion in it's self. I believe the lowlife population is growing faster than the general population. Lowlifes are a step down from Neanderthals, they don't obey laws or rules and they don't care, so leaving their beer bottles and other garbage on the ground when they leave is simply normal behavior for them.
I think the easily accessible wilderness areas will continue to suffer litter and destruction and the more remote areas will mostly remain somewhat pristine. Although a few years ago at a fairly remote mountain lake in about 3' of water I spotted a Bud can. I waded in and removed it. Pissed me off and also made me sad.True for about 90 some percent of today's youth.Very true about lowlife they are all over.Your remote lake bud can was probably from a so called sportsman........:bugsbunny:

Jetspray
08-01-2017, 07:21 PM
Nothing angers me more than picking up empty salmon egg or power bait jars .Add in cigarette butts and fishing line......Jetspray

Owlman2
08-02-2017, 06:25 AM
Nothing angers me more than picking up empty salmon egg or power bait jars .

My personal peeve is empty nightcrawler containers and huge wads of monofilament line....

chubbswheeler
08-02-2017, 12:42 PM
Ooh, I got one. How about when you find a snagged lure mess on a log jam once the water level drops and come up on 2 new lures and a bunch of swivels! Yesss! Score! Sierra's kick bass.

Fish_R_Us
08-02-2017, 04:18 PM
I've noticed a lot of people (who have no trail experience) taking their 4WD SUV's in places where they don't belong because they saw a video and say "Gee let's do that. I looks like a lot of fun!" Next thing they are stuck in a mud hole, looking up/down a steep rock pile grade or complaining that their paint job is all scratched up or they are lost because they don't have a USFS map. You need to help them get unstuck (because they are blocking your way) and send them the right direction or they are likely to starve out on the trail. Also keep a can of rubbing compound handy to give them so they'll stop *****ing.

FresnoJack
08-13-2017, 07:31 AM
My personal peeve is empty nightcrawler containers and huge wads of monofilament line....

Those foam containers actually weigh more empty than when full. Why else would someone dump then on the ground rather than carry them out.

LURKER916
08-13-2017, 02:53 PM
I'll add a different perspective. I think that social media (people constantly taking pictures and making videos) has not been good for the outdoors. "Look at me", "Look at me"...acting wild and crazy seems to have infiltrated our society. I'm 70 years old now, but even when I was a young adult I never yelled and screamed and made a big production over catching a fish. I always have liked catching a good fish, but realized that if I wanted to catch another one, it would be better to stay more quiet and stealthy. Even on TV fishing shows, people need to yell and scream (not like the old days with Bill Dance, Roland Martin and Shaw Grigsby). Just saying....

Nailed it.

Wish the internet would just break sometimes.


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Jetspray
08-13-2017, 03:46 PM
Nailed it.

Wish the internet would just break sometimes.


No the internet is not a teacher it is an implement. Those folks that abuse it have little or no "Moral Compass" to guide their actions. They kind of forget who is watching as well or listening either. To me the interaction on the net is fine, just some of them need direction, and just to look at what they have and be thankful for what they do that is helpful and not hurtful..........Jetspray

fishin around
08-13-2017, 05:11 PM
People is what happend.....

CrappieJed
08-13-2017, 05:41 PM
People is what happend.....
Disrespectful people is what happened

Jetspray
08-13-2017, 05:43 PM
People is what happend.....Welcome to the boards, I am thinking that some of them never got very socialized but turned Socialist, sad state of affairs........Jetspray

Owlman2
08-13-2017, 05:52 PM
I wouldn't blame the internet....

I consider the internet to be the most important and pivotal invention of the past 100 years at least. Some downside is inevitable....but I think it is FAR outweighed by the positives.

Cell phones on the other hand, they have their good points but I think overall humanity was better off without them. Anyone who has children younger than about 27 will know what I mean. Cell phones have made them weird....socially awkward in face to face situations....unable to even function without their damn phones.

Jetspray
08-13-2017, 07:23 PM
I wouldn't blame the internet....

I consider the internet to be the most important and pivotal invention of the past 100 years at least. Some downside is inevitable....but I think it is FAR outweighed by the positives.

Cell phones on the other hand, they have their good points but I think overall humanity was better off without them. Anyone who has children younger than about 27 will know what I mean. Cell phones have made them weird....socially awkward in face to face situations....unable to even function without their damn phones.I dunno I have seen 60+ yo women pass dirty jokes to each other at the Pyramid Fest leaving everyone else in the dark about how funny it was or how dirty it was. I am saying that everyone needs to take a second look at themselves and evaluate how important things are. I moved here 10 years ago when I retired at 56 yo to just be close to my family. I can remember phones on the wall that had a crank and a voice tube with a separate ear device, they would spark with lightning storms........Jetspray

KlamathJack
08-15-2017, 12:00 PM
Wow talk about putting people in a box and sterotyping "younger genrations" why dont you talk about how people were raised by their parents and individuals. I am 32 years old and was raised to respect nature, pick up not only my trash but others that people left behind on a river and catch and release only unless a fish wasnt going to make it by swallowing the hook. I have many friends my age and slightly younger that live by this creed as well. I have seen plenty of 45-60 year olds do what you describe. Get off your high closed minded republican horse. Jesus

CRABBY
08-15-2017, 12:47 PM
Wow talk about putting people in a box and sterotyping "younger genrations" why dont you talk about how people were raised by their parents and individuals. I am 32 years old and was raised to respect nature, pick up not only my trash but others that people left behind on a river and catch and release only unless a fish wasnt going to make it by swallowing the hook. I have many friends my age and slightly younger that live by this creed as well. I have seen plenty of 45-60 year olds do what you describe. Get off your high closed minded republican horse. Jesus...............................LOL........... ..................



http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/smilies/King.gif...................I'm an Independent ..............Ya Libtard..........But I am old.

Waterdog
08-15-2017, 01:51 PM
Wow talk about putting people in a box and sterotyping "younger genrations" why dont you talk about how people were raised by their parents and individuals. I am 32 years old and was raised to respect nature, pick up not only my trash but others that people left behind on a river and catch and release only unless a fish wasnt going to make it by swallowing the hook. I have many friends my age and slightly younger that live by this creed as well. I have seen plenty of 45-60 year olds do what you describe. Get off your high closed minded republican horse. Jesus

My original post talked about specifically how people are raised as being part of the problem. A lot of people from your generation have good values, follow the rules and respect nature and the outdoors. But from my casual observation the largest group of offenders are under 40 and probably mostly under 30. Its mostly due to changes in our culture and society and many of the younger generation not being taught values and morals like in prior generations.
Your last nasty little comment about Republican didn't have any place here. No ones talking about Republicans vs democrats. You tried to make a mean little comment based on an assumption with insufficient information. You were wrong.
Out of curiosity what's up with ending your rant by invoking Jesus? Were you asking for His Devine guidance? Or were you using His name in vain? What's up with that?

Yearroundfisherman
08-15-2017, 02:10 PM
My original post talked about specifically how people are raised as being part of the problem. A lot of people from your generation have good values, follow the rules and respect nature and the outdoors. But from my casual observation the largest group of offenders are under 40 and probably mostly under 30. Its mostly due to changes in our culture and society and many of the younger generation not being taught values and morals like in prior generations.
Your last nasty little comment about Republican didn't have any place here. No ones talking about Republicans vs democrats. You tried to make a mean little comment based on an assumption with insufficient information. You were wrong.
Out of curiosity what's up with ending your rant by invoking Jesus? Were you asking for His Devine guidance? Or were you using His name in vain? What's up with that?

Weren't you just complaining with others about a month ago about the dumb libs tryin to stop oil drilling in MPA's? And the younger ones are raised with no morals[emoji23]


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Waterdog
08-15-2017, 02:26 PM
Yearround as usual your post is senseless, obtuse, idiotic and has nothing to do with the subject matter of this thread. What the H... does a prior post with dumb libs, and oil drilling in mpa have to do with anything here? If you want to accuse me of stating something previously then quote what I said and don't take it out of context.

Mikfish
08-16-2017, 06:39 PM
I'd have to say it's more of an upbringing thing. I'm 52 and I've witnessed kids back in the day have zero regard for the environment. I believe drug use plays a big part in this. So many kids are brought up with parents so messed up and don't teach accountability and values. Also, College kids are some of the worst offenders. Case in point.. The Oregon State kids come up to Shasta every year for spring break on houseboats and leave (true story) Tons of trash behind. I'm sure most of you have heard they have to float out barges to clean it up. And a Chico State fraternity cut down something like 35 trees in the Lassen forest and thankfully were caught and are now paying the price. So yeah, most of it is indeed the younger generation, but not just this generation, but all generations since drug use have become rampant in the 60's and 70's.

And I know it doesn't pertain to this thread, but since someone brought it up.. don't get me started on the libs.. The liberal thought process is truly a head scratcher... but that's an argument for another forum.

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KlamathJack
08-17-2017, 11:13 AM
My original post talked about specifically how people are raised as being part of the problem. A lot of people from your generation have good values, follow the rules and respect nature and the outdoors. But from my casual observation the largest group of offenders are under 40 and probably mostly under 30. Its mostly due to changes in our culture and society and many of the younger generation not being taught values and morals like in prior generations.
Your last nasty little comment about Republican didn't have any place here. No ones talking about Republicans vs democrats. You tried to make a mean little comment based on an assumption with insufficient information. You were wrong.
Out of curiosity what's up with ending your rant by invoking Jesus? Were you asking for His Devine guidance? Or were you using His name in vain? What's up with that?

Nothing in particular, no offense meant just more of an expression. Really just believe this based on how your parents raised you and has not a lot to do with age, party lines, or the internet. Just vented some frustration about about politics and shudnt have on here just upset with how things are going in this country and if theres one place to get away from it all and relax and enjoy its out on the water

KlamathJack
08-17-2017, 11:14 AM
...............................LOL................ .............



http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/smilies/King.gif...................I'm an Independent ..............Ya Libtard..........But I am old.



Well we have two things in common....Love of fishing & being an Independant

hooks
08-17-2017, 11:23 AM
Ducks come in, Ducks leave.................

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-oregon-frat-trashes-lake-shasta-20160525-snap-story.html

Jetspray
08-17-2017, 07:32 PM
Ducks come in, Ducks leave.................

Don those ducks sucks, I am leaning toward the fact that they all think the US is disposable. I hear that Hillary wares disposables as well or was that Deplorables.........Jetspray

CRABBY
08-18-2017, 03:31 AM
Ducks come in, Ducks leave.................

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-oregon-frat-trashes-lake-shasta-20160525-snap-story.html
Thats about the norm for the new degenerate collage trash.How some manage to overcome getting caught up in this is a credit to their parents...

Legalbeagle
08-18-2017, 03:26 PM
Wow talk about putting people in a box and sterotyping "younger genrations" why dont you talk about how people were raised by their parents and individuals. I am 32 years old and was raised to respect nature, pick up not only my trash but others that people left behind on a river and catch and release only unless a fish wasnt going to make it by swallowing the hook. I have many friends my age and slightly younger that live by this creed as well. I have seen plenty of 45-60 year olds do what you describe. Get off your high closed minded republican horse. Jesus

+1 jack. Anybody ever hear of the Clean Water Act? Guess who's trying to repeal it? Hint, he's orange and has a yugely small vocabulary.

Legalbeagle
08-18-2017, 03:28 PM
Thats about the norm for the new degenerate collage trash.How some manage to overcome getting caught up in this is a credit to their parents...

Lake Lice come in all ages and political backgrounds.

Jetspray
08-18-2017, 04:44 PM
+1 jack. Anybody ever hear of the Clean Water Act? Guess who's trying to repeal it? Hint, he's orange and has a yugely small vocabulary.Spending too much time trying to point fingers at others is just not a good direction. I do not believe that us as individuals and our actions equate to legislation of any sort, I do not dump oil into waterways or chemicals or anything else (Clean Water Act?) it is up to your actions and others to keep things clean. You are one of those who want to repeal the Constitution and get rid of the amendments like freedom of speech and the other rights there in. Go back and forget about changes or a living document thank you......Jetspray

10minhappyhour
08-19-2017, 08:09 AM
I've been fishing, backpacking, climbing, biking, 4-wheeling etc. in the sierra's for 50 years. Seen lots of changes and rules come from people of walks of life that have a disrespectful attitude. I live up here and the "Golden rule" not only here in the sierras but EVERYWHERE is "PACK IT IN-- PACK IT OUT". Stay on the trails. 10' from the trails is okay and a rule. You can't blame just the wheelers. I have watched many fisherman toss crap off their boats or leave garbage on shore. Cigarette butts are some of the worse. I am a smoker but I always seem to have a pocket full of "Butts" when I get home.
When new rules come out, YEARLY! Usually comes from sierra club. Not a fan of those people due to always trying to shut everything down but they have helped clean up our forests.
Yes, tons of people have invaded the mountains over the years/ do you blame them? I personally just wish they respect the forest and others trying to enjoy the outdoors!
Music doesn't have to be played so loud that the whole mountain side can hear it, Garbage is a simple thing to carry out and the trails we have do not need to be destroyed to the point of closure. Even private lakes have stupid rules, IE, Jenkinson Lake. NO DOGS SWIMMING??? Really? yet they allow boats and diapers?
Anyway... respect it and enjoy it!
Cheers!

CRABBY
08-19-2017, 11:40 AM
Don those ducks sucks, I am leaning toward the fact that they all think the US is disposable. I hear that Hillary wares disposables as well or was that Deplorables.........JetsprayDamm Dave those things must be big as blankets..........

BigUnInDaBoat
08-19-2017, 02:28 PM
Man can't you guys go butt buddy up on a political forum? All I ever see from you and your crew is whaaaaaaaa liberal this and whaaaaa liberal that. Do you even fish?

Jetspray
08-19-2017, 03:32 PM
Man can't you guys go butt buddy up on a political forum? All I ever see from you and your crew is whaaaaaaaa liberal this and whaaaaa liberal that. Do you even fish?Well I did go with Nighthawk and Captain Compassion down to the Walker this Thursday. They stumbled over rocks and did good, me I kind of stuck up river and got nada. But this week the jet boat is going for another run at Topaz........Jetspray

CRABBY
08-19-2017, 03:36 PM
Man can't you guys go butt buddy up on a political forum? All I ever see from you and your crew is whaaaaaaaa liberal this and whaaaaa liberal that. Do you even fish?Yep,sometimes,Jetspray shares his trips sometimes I don't.Liberals are the newest thing to Floss cuz its so easy.LOL:smile-new:

Jetspray
08-19-2017, 03:48 PM
Yep,sometimes,Jetspray shares his trips sometimes I don't.Liberals are the newest thing to Floss cuz its so easy.LOL:smile-new:Don I thought it was a sharing moment, sorry I let you down:cool::very_drunk::nana:........Jetspray

macfish
08-19-2017, 10:26 PM
I was up around desolation, hasn't changed much still one beautiful area. Got rained out though, had to leave when the lightning and hail showed up. Nothing worse than the feeling of being the tallest thing walking down the granite slabs with lightning in the area.

Jetspray
08-20-2017, 04:14 AM
I was up around desolation, hasn't changed much still one beautiful area. Got rained out though, had to leave when the lightning and hail showed up. Nothing worse than the feeling of being the tallest thing walking down the granite slabs with lightning in the area.One year I took my young kids to Jedidiah Smith State Park to fish the Smith river. We had a small fiberglass trailer at the time big enough to accommodate just us, momma was not along. I set camp and got things ready. That night all HE double hockey sticks broke loose around 1 am. We had thunder storms, lightning, rain then hail then snowfall in quick succession with no let up. There were redwood trees being hit by lightning and exploding around us. It scared the you know what out of me. My son and daughter helped me break camp while all of this was going on. I had no chains or 4 wheel drive on my thunderbird car that I had for a tow vehicle. There were a couple of chip trucks passing by when I got out on the main road and I followed them to Cresent City and down the highway south. They stopped about 6 miles south of the city and wanted to know why I was tail gating them. After I explained what had happed to us, they both got a chuckle and said they were glad to help. You never know how a vacation can end up. Couple of years later I took the kids back up in a larger trailer towed by a truck. We surveyed the damage and called ourselves lucky to make it out..........Jetspray

CrappieJed
08-20-2017, 05:49 AM
That's some scary stuff right there guys I know the feeling been there myself (read the book saw the movie got the t-shirt)
the worst for me is Annett's mono village at upper twin lakes between bears always screwing your camp up and fighting with your dogs the lightening is horrible. On one of our trips lightening so bad it hit large pine we had tied our canopy to was hit so hard it caught fire and fell barley smashing the tent and my daughter was inside. Liberals probably caused it they do those kind of things. ( just kidding BigOneInBoat)
don't get all west side story on me...lol

CrappieJed
08-20-2017, 06:32 AM
That's some scary stuff right there guys I know the feeling been there myself (read the book saw the movie got the t-shirt)
the worst for me is Annett's mono village at upper twin lakes between bears always screwing your camp up and fighting with your dogs the lightening is horrible. On one of our trips lightening so bad it hit large pine we had tied our canopy to was hit so hard it caught fire and fell barley smashing the tent and my daughter was inside. Liberals probably caused it they do those kind of things. ( just kidding BigOneInBoat)
don't get all west side story on me...lol

chubbswheeler
08-20-2017, 08:41 AM
That's some scary stuff right there guys I know the feeling been there myself (read the book saw the movie got the t-shirt)
the worst for me is Annett's mono village at upper twin lakes between bears always screwing your camp up and fighting with your dogs the lightening is horrible. On one of our trips lightening so bad it hit large pine we had tied our canopy to was hit so hard it caught fire and fell barley smashing the tent and my daughter was inside. Liberals probably caused it they do those kind of things. ( just kidding BigOneInBoat)
don't get all west side story on me...lol
Ha. You just described both of my stays there. Hahaha
First time I stayed I was in the canoe with my Bulgarian girlfriend and the lightning hit. Sounded like we were inside the drum!
Last time we my wife woke me up and my dog was growling at a bear. Damn thing got our food and wouldn't leave. Held him at gunpoint while the family Ren to the truck. Only way he left was throwing rocks and charged him with my truck to run him out of the site. When we got back another bear already in our camp! Said screw it and drove to Bridgeport in.
Didn't know Annette was a lib too though. I saw the big sign that said no guns the next morning when we came back to pack our gear.

macfish
08-20-2017, 12:39 PM
I carry bear spray on my belt, has multiple uses in a altercation 4 leg or 2 leg critters.
Many people in Ca. don't heed the dangers of lightning. Growing up in the Rockies and low humidity you are taught when you here thunder you find cover. It kind of sucks, a little rain is good for trout fishing.
A few years ago 25 people were hit on trail ridge in Rocky Mountain National Park in one weekend two died.

Legalbeagle
08-28-2017, 11:55 AM
Spending too much time trying to point fingers at others is just not a good direction. I do not believe that us as individuals and our actions equate to legislation of any sort, I do not dump oil into waterways or chemicals or anything else (Clean Water Act?) it is up to your actions and others to keep things clean. You are one of those who want to repeal the Constitution and get rid of the amendments like freedom of speech and the other rights there in. Go back and forget about changes or a living document thank you......Jetspray

Wow. I had forgotten about this post. Allow me to educate you. The Clean Water Act isn't about "Me and You", it's about those with larger interests. By all means, don't dump oil into the waterways and feel good about yourself for doing your part; but wait, there's more...If you're ok with a strip-mining outfit dredging your local stream or a mining operation leaving mercury in those trout you bring home to the grandkids, well I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you. If you're ok with logging outfits leaving hillsides bare without replanting, allowing land erosion to muddy up those streams, enjoy. There are several other examples, but I think I'm getting the point across. We all know who is trying to repeal the Clean Water Act. The question is, "Why is he doing it?" I can't think of one good reason.

And as far as ME wanting to repeal the Constitution, that is laughable. There's nothing unconstitutional about the Clean Water Act. I'd have to assume that just because I don't come from your same political background you just chose to label and insult me. What a sad thing to do.

My conversation was in response to someone finger-pointing at supposedly "Liberal" college kids for leaving a bunch of trash at a lake. Naturally, that led to a lot of assumption that (young) Liberals only are to blame for that sort of thing. My point was, not only is that extremely biased and uneducated, but I pointed out the total lack of regard for our waterways at the highest level in the land and guess what, it goes all the way up to the Alt Right POTUS. Who loves ya? It ain't the orange man.

You're welcome.

Owlman2
08-28-2017, 01:38 PM
I was going to weigh in on the political end of this thread, but deleted my post.

I understand why many forums have a "no politics" rule. Discussing politics is pretty pointless. No one is going to change anyone else's viewpoint, and the only possible outcome of these discussions is the inevitable anger and lingering hard feelings.

The political divisions in this country are pretty concerning, and seemingly irreconcilable. Sometimes I fear the only thing that could bring the country together again is an existential threat....like a third world war....and I'm no longer sure even that would do it.

Jetspray
08-28-2017, 01:55 PM
Wow. I had forgotten about this post. Allow me to educate you. The Clean Water Act isn't about "Me and You", it's about those with larger interests. By all means, don't dump oil into the waterways and feel good about yourself for doing your part; but wait, there's more...If you're ok with a strip-mining outfit dredging your local stream or a mining operation leaving mercury in those trout you bring home to the grandkids, well I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you. If you're ok with logging outfits leaving hillsides bare without replanting, allowing land erosion to muddy up those streams, enjoy. There are several other examples, but I think I'm getting the point across. We all know who is trying to repeal the Clean Water Act. The question is, "Why is he doing it?" I can't think of one good reason.

And as far as ME wanting to repeal the Constitution, that is laughable. There's nothing unconstitutional about the Clean Water Act. I'd have to assume that just because I don't come from your same political background you just chose to label and insult me. What a sad thing to do.

My conversation was in response to someone finger-pointing at supposedly "Liberal" college kids for leaving a bunch of trash at a lake. Naturally, that led to a lot of assumption that (young) Liberals only are to blame for that sort of thing. My point was, not only is that extremely biased and uneducated, but I pointed out the total lack of regard for our waterways at the highest level in the land and guess what, it goes all the way up to the Alt Right POTUS. Who loves ya? It ain't the orange man.

You're welcome.Small mining has been destroyed in the late years, many who still do so are under watch. Re-torts take care of mercury that was left from the past, most of the small miners I know do this in a ecological manner. I myself do it as well. As far as logging most of the industry has been taken away in California and is very small in comparison with the loggers up north who ship their goods to China and Japan. For me in all due respect it is a power grab and destruction of business that the so called greenies want, heck the Sierra Club wants the rights to dredge so they can remove all of that terrible mercury from the system (along with all of the gold and other elements they can use to promote their agenda's)..........Jetspray

Jetspray
08-28-2017, 02:05 PM
I was going to weigh in on the political end of this thread, but deleted my post.

I understand why many forums have a "no politics" rule. Discussing politics is pretty pointless. No one is going to change anyone else's viewpoint, and the only possible outcome of these discussions is the inevitable anger and lingering hard feelings.

The political divisions in this country are pretty concerning, and seemingly irreconcilable. Sometimes I fear the only thing that could bring the country together again is an existential threat....like a third world war....and I'm no longer sure even that would do it.Saul Alinsky tactic's are the rule "define a target and keep attacking" right now it is all white men are racist and evil so it is OK to kill, mame, or destroy all of them. I think they are also using the uniforms of Mussolini's Black Shirts when they attack crowds at demonstrations. I wonder how many more time George Soros can spend insurance money (Progressive type) to fund those lovely guys and gals............Jetspray

Legalbeagle
08-28-2017, 03:04 PM
Small mining has been destroyed in the late years, many who still do so are under watch. Re-torts take care of mercury that was left from the past, most of the small miners I know do this in a ecological manner. I myself do it as well. As far as logging most of the industry has been taken away in California and is very small in comparison with the loggers up north who ship their goods to China and Japan. For me in all due respect it is a power grab and destruction of business that the so called greenies want, heck the Sierra Club wants the rights to dredge so they can remove all of that terrible mercury from the system (along with all of the gold and other elements they can use to promote their agenda's)..........Jetspray

Good for you and good for them. Take away regulations and some will be responsible while other's will not. We need gasoline. Why don't you have a refinery in your backyard? Let's just rely Chevron to do the right thing. We don't need big brother on this one. Do people pollute Jetspray's soil so they can make a buck?...people do :D.

Jetspray
08-28-2017, 03:15 PM
Good for you and good for them. Take away regulations and some will be responsible while other's will not. We need gasoline. Why don't you have a refinery in your backyard? Let's just rely Chevron to do the right thing. We don't need big brother on this one. Do people pollute Jetspray's soil so they can make a buck?...people do :D.They as refineries in California are heavily regulated, originally they were out in the boon docks for most but more build up around them happens much like an airport. Fossil fuels are in, look how much electricity they produce in California alone, not all of it comes from windmills, solar panels, and hydraulic projects. Coal, oil, and gas run most. I do not drive as much as when I worked, now that I am retired, very little mileage on my vehicles. Much different living here in Nevada vs California. BTW all of my vehicles are kept up to snuff on smog stuff and running properly with good tires, you should see some of the tires I look at over here....wow.......Jetspray

SteelyMan
08-28-2017, 03:55 PM
Well here is the problem as i see it. What starts out as a good idea always goes to far. What began as a way to protect our waterways has become so overreaching that if you have a 3" ditch on your property it is now a "Natural Watershed" If you have a 10 x 10 puddle from a storm on your land it is now a
" Reproductive spawning habitat"...That is the problem, give an inch and they want a mile. The last straw for me was a few years back when on Christmas morning on the news they were interviewing a very young lady who works for the Air Quality Management District that was driving around town in her Prius looking for smoke coming from peoples chimney so she could knock on their door and warn them that she could give them a $ 4oo citation,,,,but since it was Christmas, she would just warn them....That crap goes on everyday,,,,,Abusive

SteelyMan
08-28-2017, 04:04 PM
By the way,, my post above really has nothing to do with the original topic so i apologize for that.

Jetspray
08-28-2017, 04:37 PM
I am sorry that I do have a fireplace and can heat my house with it when it snows (it is an insert with high capacity fans)........Jetspray

CRABBY
08-28-2017, 05:11 PM
Well here is the problem as i see it. What starts out as a good idea always goes to far. What began as a way to protect our waterways has become so overreaching that if you have a 3" ditch on your property it is now a "Natural Watershed" If you have a 10 x 10 puddle from a storm on your land it is now a
" Reproductive spawning habitat"...That is the problem, give an inch and they want a mile. The last straw for me was a few years back when on Christmas morning on the news they were interviewing a very young lady who works for the Air Quality Management District that was driving around town in her Prius looking for smoke coming from peoples chimney so she could knock on their door and warn them that she could give them a $ 4oo citation,,,,but since it was Christmas, she would just warn them....That crap goes on everyday,,,,,AbusiveSteely,what socialist town you live in ??No woodburning??

Jetspray
08-28-2017, 05:19 PM
Steely,what socialist town you live in ??No woodburning??Don this would be anywhere close to or in the Bay Area........Jetspray

CRABBY
08-28-2017, 05:45 PM
LOL,now I know ya all have heard of the clean air act,well I owned a Smog shop in grass valley for bout 10 years an had been in the trade on an off since 1979.Now one thing I can tell ya is that most people will do whatever it takes to pass their smog test ILLEGALLY when they have or may fail and it is cheaper.Example you need a new cat (converter)cost is $500 clean-pipeing your car is $100 or less,or a slick tech will force your veh.to run richer or leaner to pass,or will overlook missing or altered emission parts,anyway you get the point most people will cheat if the cost is right an the hell with air quality.About half of my customers needed help :smile-new: the rest made it on their own an some had repairs done.My customer base consisted of left an right wingers about 50/50 thing is neither group cared about the air as long as they passed their smog test LOL.Now to be honest I did have some customers who did care an fixed their veh. no matter the cost,very few though...These clean air,clean water rules are violated everyday,you may try an do your part,good for you,most people just do whats convenient..

Captain Compassion
08-28-2017, 06:28 PM
LOL,now I know ya all have heard of the clean air act,well I owned a Smog shop in grass valley for bout 10 years an had been in the trade on an off since 1979.Now one thing I can tell ya is that most people will do whatever it takes to pass their smog test ILLEGALLY when they have or may fail and it is cheaper.Example you need a new cat (converter)cost is $500 clean-pipeing your car is $100 or less,or a slick tech will force your veh.to run richer or leaner to pass,or will overlook missing or altered emission parts,anyway you get the point most people will cheat if the cost is right an the hell with air quality.About half of my customers needed help :smile-new: the rest made it on their own an some had repairs done.My customer base consisted of left an right wingers about 50/50 thing is neither group cared about the air as long as they passed their smog test LOL.Now to be honest I did have some customers who did care an fixed their veh. no matter the cost,very few though...These clean air,clean water rules are violated everyday,you may try an do your part,good for you,most people just do whats convenient..

No smog check in my part of Nevada. Every time I go into California I fear the smog police will stop me.

CC

CRABBY
08-29-2017, 03:32 AM
No smog check in my part of Nevada. Every time I go into California I fear the smog police will stop me.

CCLOL.no worries Capt.if your veh.isn't reg.in ca.you don't need to comply with our smog rules....:yahoo:

jakefield
08-29-2017, 06:15 AM
I'm late to this post. Took 3 buddies further north to the Lakes Basins area around Graeagle. They had never seen this area of California and only one of them had fished before . Fished Sardine Lake this past Tuesday and Wednesday morning. Both days were beautiful and we were the only ones on the lake in the morning on Tuesday and only one other boat on Wednesday. This area, for whatever reasons (distance too perhaps) remains beautiful and relatively untouched. We caught 21/18 planted rainbows. Tom

cencal
09-01-2017, 08:17 AM
Convict and Mary were packed last weekend. Maybe I''l try mid week.