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christopherjake
10-26-2004, 10:05 AM
I always get nervous whenever I'm near a DFG , Sherieff or Police officer, even though I am not breaking any law. *Does anyone else feel this way, and have you been cited before? *

One time I was fishing from shore with a friend when he decided to use my spare pole to cast while bait fishing with the other pole. *He was using two poles for about 10 minutes when DFG came by in a boat and cited him for using two rods. *Although DFG couldn't tell him how much the fine would be at the time, my friend thought it was funny until he later got the bill for $700+ in the mail. *OUCH! *Lesson learned. * ???

The_Big_Sinus
10-26-2004, 10:46 AM
You are supposed to feel a little nervous with the law around. In fact, cops interviewing people about a crime are probably a tad suspicious when the folks they are talking with aren't at least a little nervous.

Everybody has a skeleton in the closet, so to speak...

Intimidator
10-26-2004, 11:16 AM
No need to feel nervous.
Just know the regs. and fish by the rules.
Remember they put there pants on the same as we do.
You should be happy when you see them,it doesn't happen very offten. Unless your coming out at west side at Bodega Bay during Salmon fishing.... This is how they fund DFG by tickting people with the Silvers.

fresnofshfan
10-26-2004, 11:20 AM
I dont agree with Big Sinus. You are not supposed to be nervous around any law enforcenent. They want you too. If you have fear everytime you see or talk to a cop or dgf they have you where they want you. Scared and intimidated.
I just ignore them. I use to pay attention to them or get nervous too until I started ignoreing them. Being in the city alot you cant turn around or pay attention to every cop. I say ignore them if they want to talk to me they can go out of their way to talk to me. Now if you are breaking the law then of coarse you would be nervous.

AllFishNoWork
10-26-2004, 11:48 AM
I think Jim Rome said "If you're not cheatin,you're not tryin"
If you're cheatin, you should be nervous and have a good plan(or lawyer) in case you need one.

waterdog
10-26-2004, 11:55 AM
As Warren Zevon said - Bring lawyers, guns and money, the s_ _ _ has hit the fan... Not sure that that applys here but I was just reminded of that song and it sounds good..
Waterdog ;D

MB_Kevin
10-27-2004, 01:14 AM
one of my sisters is a parole officer and was a correctional officer. they are just regular people like us. I'm just very honest with them and relate to them and I'm always let go. i once got pulled over totally smashed and was just really nice and respectful and got let go somehow. so just treat them like everyone else and they might end up being cool but there are some?

Fishtale
10-27-2004, 06:30 AM
Law enforcement officers are normal human beings, hired by you, to do a job that no one else wants to do. Can you imagine what it would be like if no one enforced the laws? Imagine driving to the launch ramp with people driving which ever way they want. Do you think the fishing would be real good if people could fish any way they want? I pay $40 every year for a fishing license. I am happy when F&G comes by. It makes me feel like I didn't waste my money. Over thirty years and I have only been checked twice? I for one wish there were more law enforcement. How many times have you been out fishing and wished there was a warden around to enforce the law? There is no reason for fear if you respect your fellow fishermen and the law.

PlugROCKSTAR
10-27-2004, 06:52 AM
almost got cited once at Lawson's Landing, we were fishing for leopard sharks. I casted a 6ounce lead and a 12"Sardine. As soon as the sardine hit water a pelican went after it. being me, i played the pelican for a minute until the coast guards told me to cut the line. :-[ then they approached us and i thought for sure they were going to hand me a ticket. All he said was thank you and don't make me write you a ticket. that was the closest i have ever gotten a citation. stupid me. >:(

vito
10-27-2004, 08:40 AM
In 2001 I was fishing with my girlfriend at Folsom Lake. Her hat was too big and mine was adjustable, so we traded. We swapped licenses as well. The next time I went fishing - banking at Rollins lake- I grabbed my hat, with her license on it, by mistake. I was approached by Officer Johnson. He asked to see my license and told me that I don't look like a Nicole. I was so surprised! I appologized and explained the swithup. He was none too cool about it and told me that he was going to cite me, and her, for letting me use her license! The funny thing is that he had actually checked my license at the same spot recently!! He gave me his personal fax #, and when I went home I faxed him a copy of my license. All he did was drop the sitation against her! I missed a day of work to go to court. The Judge, nor the clerk, could figure out what the legal code was for my violation, so they pushed mt case to the back of the line. I sat in court for 5 hours! When I was finally called up, I showed the judge my licenses for the past 10 years (I save them) and the current one. They fined me $50!! The price of the ticket and my lost day of work combined cost me over $400. The same warden checked my license 2 more times that season - can you say memory loss???

On February 3 2003, I took my 3 year old daughter to Rollins, in my boat to fish and enjoy the day. I hadn't bought my license yet, but I had a copy of the regs in my car and knew that she did not need a license to fish. I brought her to a spot by the dam, and put some power bait on for her. She fishes with me often and knows what she is doing. I looked up and saw my good buddy officer Johnson looking at me with Binoculars. I waived and said hi. He called me over to the dam and told me he was going to cite me for fishing without a license again. I explained that I wasn't, and he said that he saw me "touch the pole." I took another day off work, went to court and plead not guilty. I was instructed that I would have a trial date and needed to return then. I took another day off work and went to my "trial." I was the only civilian there. It was me,a judge, 3 bailiffs, 2 DFG officers, a court clerk, a court recorder,the D.A.'s representative, and 2 or 3 other people. Everyone was ther to "prosucute the poacher!" It was evident that I didn't have a chance. First the DFG spoke, then me. The Judge passed sentence! My fine - $800!!
Or I could buy a lifetime licences - $700 + court costs. The really funny thing is that the guy in front of me the first time I went to court for this was driving on a suspended license with an OZ. of herb in his car and his fine was $35!. I guess I am the real criminal here.
I bought the license, only good in Ca, and wear it proudly. The really cool thing is that I will have to live until I am 86 to justify the cost and can never leave the state if I am going to use it! Not only that, They mail you a new copy every year. So When January rolls around, and I haven't recieved it yet, I can't fish!!!!!!! (So much for the steelhead opener!) I love the man!!!!!

Reno_Flytyer
10-27-2004, 08:42 AM
No tickets. No fears. No kidding.
RFT

Homeseller
10-27-2004, 09:17 AM
vito. Do you look like Black Bart or what? Sure that you did not date Patrolman Johnsons doughter way back in the day?

For some reason this guy has a woody for ya ;)

Homeseller
10-27-2004, 09:28 AM
My brother went to school with a guy who worked on the boarder for a few years. After he could not take the politics anymore. He went to work for the F&G in Alaska. Up there he was monitoring deer hunters and they would use a model deer that they could move now and then to motivate hunters to shoot it from the road so the F&G could bust em.

The guy was telling us about this one time where he had the buck on a hill and a hunter saw it pulled his rifle from his truck and then mike moved the ear of the deer just a smig. The hunter shot it twice and the deer did not fall down. The hunter walked up the hill to the deer and saw it to be a fake. The hunter then lifted the deer up and carried it down to his truck where he threw the deer in the bed and started to drive off.

After the D&G officer stopped laughing. He had to go chase the guy down and get the fake deer back. It was all on film. I do not know how much the fine for that one was.

STURGEONSTOMPER
10-27-2004, 09:41 AM
That has to be one of the funniest stories Ive ever heard. I think I seen that on tv, like the dummest crimanals or something like that...What was the guy thinking, hey look I found a decoy ;D DUMB BUTT ::)

AllFishNoWork
10-27-2004, 09:51 AM
That story kills me Homeseller. I guess the guy thought since he shot the deer, he could take it home.

Vito- I'm sure you are a great guy and an upstanding citizen, but remind me never to go fishing with you.

Master Baiter- I had a similar experience with an officer. My neighbor and I were out drinkin beer on a hill about 1/2 mile from our houses. The man came along and said "what'ya doin?" I explained my neighbor had an argument with his wife and I was givin them some cool down time. The officer said ok and he'd be back in an hour or so to make sure we got home ok.

vito
10-27-2004, 12:52 PM
Hey allfish, I think its ok. I just don't go to Rollins lake anymore :) Take heed sniffers. I asked the DFG in the parking lot after court how a person was legally supposed to be allowed to fish with their young children and he told me to buy a license. So If there are any people out there who are thinking that it is ok to take your kids fishing, don't help them, unless you have your license on you, even if you are not fishing... If they ask you to bait the hook say "I wish I could honey, but Officer Johnson might get me." Of course this is not written in the regs. It reads that "if you are angling you must display a license." It should read "if you are standing anywhere near a body of water and you happen to make momentary contact with an angling device, you are in violation." They also told me that you can get a ticket if you have an extra pole on a boat and an unbaited hook is hanging in the water because, "the reflective nature of the metal could intice a bite." What a crock. If this were true, there would be no bait and tackle industry. I wish I could throw out an unbaited hook and catch trout. That would rule!! I think they are out to interpret the law any way they want in order to generate revenue for the state.
As a matter of fact I wasn't the only person victimized that day. I made friends with a couple at the boat launch that morning. They were enjoying what might be their last fishing day together because the husband was dying of cancer. From the look of him, he was gonna go any day.
While I was launching, he slipped on some Ice and fell in the water. He got up and seemed ok. When I got back I was telling them about my ticket and they told me that when he went up the road to change his pants, Officer Johnson cited his wife for 6 fish on the stringer. He wouldn't listen to her story, nor would he wait until the old man got back to coroberate it. Nice guy!!

Co-Pilot
10-27-2004, 01:01 PM
Vito,
I see you've met my good buddy Wade. ;D
I ran into him Archery hunting on the Donner Summit. He was waiting for a guy we both knew was the biggest poacher around. Wade had busted him for poaching a big non-typical buck on the back side of Folsom lake. The guy shot his mouth off and Johnson got word. He heard the Buck was at a taxidermist in Susanville and he went up and told the guy that if he didn't come up with it, it would be the last one he mounted. So Wade busted him for it.
When I saw him at Donner he was all ticked off cause the guy didn't get jail time. He told me, and I knew that this guy owned a ranch on top of the hill and that he had his girlfriends come up in pickup trucks and haul out illeagal deer under false bottoms in the bed of the trucks. Wade was determined to put this guy behind bars. He told me that he can work whatever hours he wants and that he knew this guy was in there and he would sit there all night until he came out. We talked for 3 hours that day but what I neglected to tell him was that I had hunted the ranch all morning and he wasn't there.
He told me point blank, I want this guy in prison and I'll make sure he goes. Nice to know the local Warden doesn't carry a grudge.

Co-Pilot
10-27-2004, 01:10 PM
By the way,
He's the same guy I mentioned in the mountain lion thread way back when that told me if you see a mountain lion KILL IT. Just make sure nobody sees you pull the trigger. Nothing like a double standard ???

Homeseller
10-27-2004, 01:11 PM
Let me say first that I could never be a cop. The first time I had someone in the back seat of my car after they shot Bambi out of season and I took them out on a long streight piece of road way to get my speed up to a 140mph only to slam on my breaks and faceplant them into the seporator screen behind the drivers seat. I would find myself drawing unenployment for the Government.

Let me also say that reading R-E Contracts day after day. If someone wants to sew you or cite you they will be able to.

Just look at the IRS, 2000 plus gun laws, Traffic Police, and yes the Fish and Game. Not to mention it is nothing for the State of California to pass between 1000 and 1200 new laws in a year. Can any of you name even ten of them?

You can do this here, and that there, BUT only if you have this but NOT that and after this but BEFORE that. There I just wrote the IRS code, Gun laws, Traffic Laws, Fish and Game Regs, and I threw in some Real Estate Law just to be sure I had it all in there.

Most of us break laws each days that we do not even know are laws.

V. I will go fishing with you. I think it is not a matter of if you get a ticket but more a matter of when.

Loves-to-Fish
10-27-2004, 01:19 PM
WOW!! I can see why Vito has his reasons.......to say the least! I've never received a ticket, nor gave reason for one. Its frustrating to read the negative experiences fellow Anglers have had with Wardens. Common sense on the Wardens part would null half the negative experiences shared here. I find it disturbing that a Warden would act on such petty circumstances. Its one thing to be poaching, and another teaching your child safety angling???

LTF my $.02 :-/

The_Big_Sinus
10-27-2004, 01:29 PM
I'm not nervous after I've had a chance to determine what a cop wants, even if it means a ticket or appearance, BTW. Until I know what they want, yeah, I'm nervous. I don't do "bad things", generally speaking.

I am simply repeating what I hear from cops I know. When they initially approach you, unless you've rehearsed how you are going to deal with a cop, you should be nervous. Why would the police want to talk with me? What did I do wrong?

That's one reason why many (not all cops in all circumstances) cops start encounters with open-ended questions or statements. For example, "How's the fishing today?"

What they are doing is fishing for your reaction. Do you look them in the eye when you respond? Are you combative? Or, do you come right back at them with an answer and what is it?

For more serious crimes, people don't have pat answers to questions like, "What were you doing last Tuesday at such-and-such a place?"

If they do, then they've been thinking about "last Tuesday" a lot.

I can't help Vito, unfortunately. It sounds to me like Warden Johnson does not like him for some reason. More unfortunately, Vito has been busted on technicalities (funny how criminals "get off on technicalites" and we hear about that, but not about the "technical convictions"), now, so his creditbility with Warden Johnson's superiors is nil.

My advice: avoid Warden Johnson at all costs. He doesn't like certain people, and if you're on the list, you're screwed.

christopherjake
10-27-2004, 01:34 PM
Vito - sorry to read about your bad experience with DFG. *I can't believe those guys got away with it. *

Now, do you guys understand why they make me nervous? *Even though I consider myself an informed person with common sense and abide by the law, I'm still worried that they will find something to cite me for that I'm not aware of. * *

The_Big_Sinus
10-27-2004, 01:46 PM
I've had my best luck being as honest as I can be (without incriminating myself), being respectful, and shutting up when they tell me to shut up. Using the term "sir" seems to help, too.

It's not foolproof, but it has gotten me, say, a ticket for not having a front plate, instead of a ticket for being in the carpool lane.

If I don't have a license displayed above my waist, I don't touch a rod with the line in the water. At least in this state, that's the law. I've seen other people break it without feeling the need to cal in the SWAT team because I knew they had licenses, just not on them, but it isn't a risk for me.

Good intentions don't count for much in court, unfortunately.

vito
10-27-2004, 03:51 PM
Thanks for the support. Its not like I walk around all day pissin and moanin about DFG. I just thought I would answer christopherjakes question. I have no Idea why Wade singled me out. As a matter of fact I'm sure he treats most of his victims that way, I'm just the only one on these boards. I am middle aged and work for a bank. I couldn't be more normal looking. Fly on the wall, if you know what I mean. And I'm not saying that I don't like DFG or appreciate what they do. Just sharing my experience because I know its shocking and interesting. Maybe I can help someone to avoid the same problems. I have met hundreds of people fishing and have never heard one like it. Just so you know, these DFG experiences are not why I'm aprehensive of the Cops. Thats is another story, equally as unfair and shocking - even more so, and not for these boards. Lets just say I enjoy the positives that those dedicated to "serve and protect" offer, I just don't trust any of them.

Empire
10-27-2004, 03:55 PM
I have only had a few field contacts with DFG over the years. Most contacts were just fine, checking licenses or looking at shotgun shells to make sure they are steel.

I did have one nasty experience, though nothing as bad as Vito's. We were deer hunting at Mud lake up above Silver lake. There were a bunch of people camped along the side of the lake. We had got back from a long hike and were sitting in camp, feet up by the fire. We saw the DFG vehicle go through all the camps, checking licenses and such.

When the 2 officers got to us, they blew into camp like a couple slobs. Knocked over a couple of drinks. They demanded licenses and tags. Everyone in camp was licensed and had a tag. We were playing by the rules. One of the guys had left his rifle loaded, and leaned it up on the tire of a vehicle. One of the officers said he was going to issue a citation for having a loaded gun in the vehicle.

We tried to stay calm with the officers yelling at us and treating us like outlaws. The guy that was threatened with the citation was turning red he was so mad. The officers looked through our stuff, I guess to find dope or illegal ammo?

Then they just left. No explanation, no nothing, and no citation. It must have been like occupied France in WW2, and the officers were Gustapo.

I knew a DFG Lieutenant at the time, and he got a phone call. 'Nuf said!

The_Big_Sinus
10-27-2004, 03:56 PM
BTW, Vito, I hope you understand that I don't think you are "asking for it" or anything of the sort. After all, I don't know you...

I don't like it when people in any position of authority get a real urge to bust my balls, either. Not fun.

The_Big_Sinus
10-27-2004, 03:59 PM
Sounds like Empire was a victim of being the last man checked. They must have been real PO'ed to drive all the way out to Mud Lake, go through a dozen hunter camps, and not cite anyone.

Mr_T
10-27-2004, 07:25 PM
If the guy took the deer with him there was no evidence. No way to get popped for poaching if they have no evidence!

MikeI
10-27-2004, 09:41 PM
[quote author=Empire link=board=fresh_gen;num=1098813908;start=15#24 date=10/27/04 at 16:55:32]. One of the guys had left his rifle loaded, and leaned it up on the tire of a vehicle. One of the officers said he was going to issue a citation for having a loaded gun in the vehicle.

quote]

This was my only citation from DFG. I was 19 years old (1990) and it was opening day of duck season. We finally had a good wind for the opener. When the wind started to die down an hour or two into daylight, I could hear the new alarms from my truck sounding off, resetting, then going off again.

I hiked out the 3/4 mile or so to get to my truck. I was pissed that I had to deal w/ my truck instead of shooting ducks with my buddies, but I didn't want a dead battery.

When I returned to my truck, there was a Warden sitting in his marked pick up parked behind my truck. I waved "Hi" to him and he waved back. I resed my loaded shotgun against the tailgate and bumper. The butt was on the ground. I was still in my waders. I reached inside and disconnected the alarm. When I got back out, the Warden approached me (like I figured he would).

It was pretty routine; license, stamps, gun plug....Then he starts lecturing me about having a loaded gun in a car. After he explained how the law read, I apologized and assured him it wouldn't happen again. For twenty minutes h laid into me, and the whole time I could hear my buddies bangin' away in the background. It was nothing but, "Yes Sir" and "No Sir's" from me.

At the end, he has the nerve to say, "Well, guess I'm going to have to write you a citaion!"

I couldn't believe it. A lecture or a ticket....not both. He was a jerk and I fought it in court. The judge reduced the fine by a third, but I was still found guilty.

MB_Kevin
10-27-2004, 09:59 PM
I know every time the F & G sees me with allot of poles they get nervous. I like to carry one set up for bottom fishing cats and carp. one set up for jigging or bobber fishing. and one for a lure. and a set for panfish poper so they see us with 6 poles and say you know you can only use one of those. its funny.
that fake deer story is great.
yea saying yes sir and no sir seems to help with police. and don't get nervous and rude and it always works out fine for me.

The_Big_Sinus
10-28-2004, 06:49 AM
You know, they run the gammut in terms of reasonableness, and courtesy and all that.

I had a DFG just lay into me at Pardee one time for having my license on a lanyard, but I accidentally allowed it to sit under my fishing vest. No cite, but I thought it was a little overboard.

Conversely, I was at one my spots on the Moke, and was surprised a Warden even made it to where I was... He didn't check my license (which was displayed), or my gear (which was legal)- I figured he glassed me. Anwyay, this guy was totally cool. He gave me directions to some other spots, let me know where a turn off was that I had a hard time finding. Turns out he kayaked the entire N Fork from Blue Lakes to Pardee. I talked with the guy for 30 min., just to pick his brain.

I figure these guys probably go through cycles, mature, or were re-assigned from some other duty. I have a hard time imagining that a local guy, who genuinely cares about the resource, is gonna' be that much of a hard ass about minor infractions where they're dealing with people who really aren't materially breaking the law. On the other hand, if a guy moved agencies from traffic beats because he just doesn't have that much on the ball, and he's just bitter, in general, then there's some a-hole potential there.

There's also the "local factor". Sometimes guys are hard on people from out of town, just because they are. I see that a lot in the Northwest (OR and WA, anyway), where you have the State Patrol picking CA lic. plates out of a line of cars doing 65 in a 55 for tickets. Provicialism is a b*tch.

Reno_Flytyer
10-28-2004, 07:40 AM
Sinus, your post on the second page brought back a distinct memory for me. While spin fishing Mepps blades on the Truckee River about two miles or so out of the city limits of Reno I received a greeting of "How's the fishing today" from a Nevada warden. I had my back to the shoreline he approached me from, and I was heavily focused on sending the right vibes down the Stren to the fish when he spoke. After regaining my composure from being startled like that, we both had a good laugh over my reaction. He checked me for a license, wished me good luck and continued on his rounds. All in all an innocent experience, and your suggestion that they simply want to get a read on you, I believe, is right on. RFT

Co-Pilot
10-28-2004, 08:39 AM
It's just human instinct to read someone you've never met before. That's why god gave us sh*t detectors. I've been checked over a dozen times both fishing and hunting and have not had a negative experience. Even my meeting with Mr. Johnson was fine. We talked about Mountain lions, and if you think the guy that stole the dummy deer is good, wait till you sit down with a warden that has set them up and listen to the stories. Wade even pointed out areas to me that were posted beyond the legal property lines and told me that I could hunt anywhere in this area to a certain boundry which was way beyond the signs. The next morning I had him validate my tag for a 28" buck that I shot in that area. He's not always a hard a*s. He's checked at least a dozen of my friends with no citations, including the commissioner of DFG. And he had no idea who he was checking until he read the name on the license. Then it was like "you're not the same Mike as ???" It was kind of comical to see the warden calling the hunter sir.

AllFishNoWork
10-28-2004, 10:35 AM
I've only had *one bad experience with law enforcement, well actually the Folsom Lake Rangers. Twice I felt myself or my family had been harrassed by a ranger(once was just for being in the park 30 minutes before closing time and fishing, the ranger told us to leave immediately or else he would call a tow truck and have my car impounded and the other was when a ranger told my 14 year old daughter she couldn't fish without a license) so I called their office and the DFG to file complaint. Well that did it, next time in the park I was cited for 5 vehicle code violations, only 1 stood up in court however. That is why Folsom is normally one of my least favorite places to fish. That and their extreme rate increases.

Mickey_Thomas
10-28-2004, 12:27 PM
Good story Tim, now where exactly is that spot? My son hasn't filled his tag yet this year ;D

christopherjake
11-02-2004, 07:02 PM
Has anyone been cited for having your rig set up where your weight is less than 18'' from your hooks at the Delta? I am still unsure whether or not the set up described is a violation.

longliner
11-03-2004, 06:23 PM
This thread is great in that it serves to just reinforce my determination to get the hell out of this gestapo state. I buy a $34 license, pay another $5 for a delta stamp, then pay fees to launch the boat, fees to get into a lake in the first place, then I can only use one rod, rigged in some stringent way....where does this all end??

Then I read about $700 or $800 fines for putting a piece of bait on your child's hook or touching a second rod with one in the water. All these chicken#$@# laws are more ways to tax us and tax us and tax us some more. In fact, it almost appears to me that there is a concerted effort to stop people from doing anything for themselves.

Now, having said all that, I can assure you guys/gals that it's not just CA, yet not nearly as bad as here. Here's a story about re-entering the US from Ontario. You can a buy a family license in Ontario for something like $46 Canadian...not a bad deal, actually. On that license you are allowed, I think, 100 perch and 12 walleyes. Once while going thru US customs on the way back there were two couples in a vehicle (friends of mine). They each had their limits of walleyes (12/couple). They were checked. As it turned out, one of the bags of walleyes had 13 in it and the other had 11 in it. They had miscounted. When the guy discovered this he, of course, pointed it out to them that one couple was over limit. They explained the mistake in counting. He didn't care. He cited them and the fine was $50 plus he took the extra walleye. Since they weren't going to drive clear back up to Sioux Ste. Marie, they paid the fine and went on. Now you can say "just don't make that counting mistake" and you're right, but the reality of the # of fish taken back on two licenses is still what it is. Things like this just make me furious with the government.

MB_Kevin
11-04-2004, 11:33 PM
I think fishing should still be fun. we are out enjoying our nature and end up getting fined for it. It makes it hard to go fishing. I don't think they make it really clear on what we can and cant do. I tried sometimes well before I found this site and I was unsure of limits, weights and time of year. Even how many poles and didn't know about introducing fish to foreign waters. even after i got the regs book it was hard to understand. I don't want to break any fishing laws but its not clear. If they want to be so hard on us should make it harder to get a license or easier to get info on the laws.
I seen a guy catching surf perch from the bay a while back and he said he was practicing because the season didn't open for 2 days and I would have never known that I thought you could keep those always. Again i could be fined for not knowing.

christopherjake
11-05-2004, 08:47 AM
Master_Baiter, I agree with you 100%! *When you buy your license, they don't warn you about the rules and regulations. *You hand them the money and they give it to you to fill out and that's it. *And if you're new to the sport, you're screwed! *I remember the first time I purchased my fishing license, I asked the saleperson about what's legal and what's not. *Her reply was, "I don't know anything about fishing. *I just sell the license." *And if I wanted a rules and regulations book, I would have to request it from DFG. *I would have to read the entire book, understand everything, and keep up with the regulation changes just so I can fish legally. *

Even those of us who have been fishing for a while still don't know all the rules and regulations. *Have you seen all the detailed information, exceptions, limitation, and restrictions in the regulation book? *I mean poaching is one thing but getting cited for a small infraction or on a technicality is another. *So, my advice to the DFG: *Lighten up, fellas. *Cite the poachers to the full extent of the law, but don't ruin the fishing experience of a father and his young son by citing the father for helping his son with baiting the hook or touching the rod. *

Another question: *I went to Nimbus Dam a couple of weeks ago and fished for salmon. *And there is this cable you're not supposed to fish beyond. *Why wouldn't they post a sign notifying people this? *Luckily I saw the cable and was smart enough to ask someone about it after fishing for several minutes beyond the cable. *I mean if there was a sign and someone disobeyed it, then he/she deserves to get cited. *Otherwise, take a chill pill. *People don't just know these things. *

AnglerBG
11-07-2004, 11:53 PM
Well, I've been checked twice and have never broken the law, so I've never been cited. It's very interesting to read some of these posts. I think it sucks that a lot of people think so poorly of the DFG. I've worked in a tackle shop for a while, and I hear tons or negativity there too. I think the DFG is in a real bad place, and has been for a while. I did some research a few years ago and found that the DFG only has a couple hundred wardens in the entire state. My logic is that- these people know that for every 1 person they cite, there are 20 more breaking the law and getting away. I think that some of these wardens probably feel kind of helpless in their work, and are determined to really give it to the few people they actually catch. This probably makes them feel a little more useful, and frankly I can't blame them. This isn't an excuse for being so ruthless though.

When it comes down to it- There are nice cops and mean ones. I have had the opportunity to ride along with a few police officers, and talk to others, and I can tell you that yes, these people are people. I have talked to customers in the shop who I didn't even recognize as cops, until they showed me their ID for a credit card at the checkout counter. Some of these guys are great, forgiving, and sometimes I think even too nice. But there are mean ones too. It's just like our society- some people you talk to are nice, some not so much. The bottom line is that they have chosen to do this job, and do it well.

As for stupid laws- yes, there are a lot of really stupid regulations. Again, I think this is so when the warden finally has a chance to get SOMEBODY, they can nail them with just about anything. The fact of the matter is that the majority of anglers will never actually have to face some of these little regulations. If you get nailed by the DFG, just consider it bad luck. As for Vito and anyone else faced with cops like that- they give their profession a negative image, and are really hurting themselves. I think the key to good policing is to keep the public on your side, and some of these guys make that kind of hard sometimes.

A lot of the good officers and wardens are just doing their job as best they can. If they didn't get people now and then, NO ONE would follow fish and game laws. Also- there's also a way we can all keep these wardens and cops on the track of the real criminals- if you see any poaching or polluting going on, Call 1-800-DFG-CALTIP. I have heard from numerous people that this system works. You call anonymously and there can sometimes be a reward involved.

The war on fish and game wrong-do'ers is kind of like the war on drugs. We've got enough resources to limit it, but not to stop it.

I always seem to type so much, oh well.
BG

The_Big_Sinus
11-08-2004, 01:32 PM
You can't manage without rules. These are just basic facts.

Fisheries don't exist in a vaccum. You can manage them, if you like. To do that, you need rules, and you need people to follow them. To give the rules some teeth, because some kids don't play by the rules, we made them laws. Since every fishery is a little different, we now have lots of laws. We also still have lots of fish, even though millions of anglers go after them every year. So, on balance the system works, for most people, most of the time.

My advice for people who don't like Gestapo-esque California- Go ahead and move! You will probably like it better someplace else, and that's one less person I have to compete with for a house, a job, and fish.

I'm not defending the nastiness involved in law enforcement. It's out there, and I've certainly had my opportunites to see the bad side of it. But, in terms of concepts, crime is crime, and you shouldn't do the crime if you can't do the time.

It's a very fine line between a guy with no license helping his kids bait a hook, and the 1/2 dozen people I saw two years ago on opening day, also without licenses, basically forcing their kids to catch limits as fast as they can and throwing the fish into plastic bags- like they're harveting ears of corn. I'm pretty sure that's not why they put the trout in the stream, is so that a couple could make slave labor out of their 4 kids... I sure wish a warden had been writing a ticket to those people, because they were abusing a resource, wasting taxpayer dollars, and being just plain mean, besides.

In terms of rules, the rule is OK. In terms of enforcement, it's lax and inconsistent.

AnglerBG
11-08-2004, 03:44 PM
Also, christopherjake brings up a good point. There are a lot of places that sell fishing licenses that really should not be allowed to. Some Longs Drugs and places like that are what I'm talking about. "I don't know anything about fishing, I just sell the licenses." That's horrible. If you don't fish you shouldn't sell the licenses. Working at the shop, I've had people come in for stamps with blank licenses. (BTW: state law requires that the license be filled out in full before the seller can allow the buyer to leave. The other option is for the seller to write "Gift" in the upper left corner and make sure that the name and date are filled out.) When I ask these people where they bought the license, they usually say "Longs" or "Big 5" even. The buyer was not told of this and they were not given regulation books. Thats a bad way to start out.

As for "too many regulations," yes I think they could be simplified somewhat, and some are just rediculous, but the angler is not necessarily such a helpless victim. The handy dandy reg book is light and small, and can be taken anywhere. It's impossible to sit down and memorize the whole book. So instead, before you go fishing anywhere, look up that particilar spot and read the regs. Do this everytime you go to a new place. It takes about 30 seconds and it's easy. Alot better than all at once.

The invisable boundries are absolutely rediculous, although some are on waters that don't get fished much, so it really isn't a problem. But at some place like Nimbus, where hundreds of anglers fish in a day, they should have signs.

I remember going mudding with some friends in my truck one day and getting stopped by the federal police. They said we were trespassing. When I said we didn't know, he pointed to the other side of the road. The other side was all fenced in and had signs posted, but the side we were on had nothing- totally open with tons of tire tracks. His reply was- if that side says no trespassing (pointing,) don't you think this side is the same? My thought? If they don't want me on this side too, why is it not fenced like the other side with signs? Though not quite the same, it's the same idea. It just doesn't make sense sometimes. The DFG boundries can be similarly unclear I think.

The_Big_Sinus
11-08-2004, 04:29 PM
A couple points-

No signs at nimbus? Probably a case of too much traffic- there were signs, but they were vandalized or stolen so many times none will be up until there's a budget for that...

The published reg's, believe it or not, are not the actual law. They may be a defense in court, and they may provide guidance, but they aren't the law. Stupid, huh?

Trespassing. An interesting law. Just so you are aware, it is not actually the crime of trespassing to go on land where it is posted "No Trespassing". It is only against the law when it is posted, you are in fact on the posted premises, and you are asked to leave. Now, this Dan O'Day (as in "Here lies Dan O'Day...") legality may not keep you from getting a ticket, or from getting rock salt in your a$$, but it may just keep you from actually paying a fine. It might not apply on Federal land (in which case, I have to wonder why the Fed Police have such a problem with access- it's public land).

But, I "trespass" regularly on private land, with little ill effect, to date. In fact, I "trespass" around Fallen Leaf roughly annually, and have never even been approached by anyone to ask me to leave. I think most people are reasonable if you aren't trashing the place, and some aren't...

AnglerBG
11-08-2004, 06:51 PM
There ya go. Good point about the Nimbus signs.

christopherjake
11-08-2004, 07:38 PM
On another post I asked the question on whether or not it's a violation to have your sinker less *than 18'' away from your hooks when fishing at the Delta. *Does the information below (from DFG Freshwater Handbook) mean this restriction doesn't apply to fishing at the Delta?

c) Maximum Gaps and Gear Rigging (does not apply to lakes and reservoirs, the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta (defined in Section 5.00), and the Colorado River).
1. No person shall use any multiple hook with a gap greater than 3/4 inch or any hook with a shank longer than 2 inches.
2. It is unlawful to use any hook which is directly or indirectly attached closer than 18 inches to any weight exceeding 1/2 ounce.

By the way, I saw a DFG warden at a store picking up licenses and money (I'm not going to say which store) and asked him this specific question and guess what? *He didn't know the answer. *With so many anglers who bait fish, I was suprised he couldn't answer such a simple question. *Wouldn't you think a DFG warden should know the answer to this question?

longliner
11-08-2004, 07:46 PM
TBS:

"My advice for people who don't like Gestapo-esque California- Go ahead and move! You will probably like it better someplace else, and that's one less person I have to compete with for a house, a job, and fish."

I will do so glady, my friend. I think, however, your attitude is condescending and arrogant. I wasn't implying that law enforcement is a bad thing and if you think so, you didn't see my point. I obey the law and think we need laws that protect our fisheries and game animals in such a way that the good of all is forwarded. But to throw $700 or $800 at somebody for baiting a kid's hook or hanging a bare hook over the bow of one's boat is just simply wrong and counterproductive to what should be intended by laws of this nature.

You talked about seeing adults using kids' licenses to haul in limits for their own pleasure and gain. The scenario presented relative to that was simply not of that nature. And if the DFG can't see the difference then they are just incompetent and, what's more, "gestapo-esque", as you put it. You know something? It's just a shame that there are those out there that care not one bit for the integrity of the game and fish and just take regardless of what is good for sportsmen. I want them arrested and punished as much as anyone else, but for you to imply that it's okay to nail somebody who is fundamentally innocent of such wrongdoings in the name of stopping those that blatantly break the law is just ludicrous.

Also, it appears you don't like to have to compete for anything...(house, job, fish...LOL!)thus the fewer of you, the more for me, eh? Okay. I just laugh. I think you counterdicted yourself in a sense. You stay here; that's just fine with me, too, but it's not about competition, rather about the mentality.

BENDEM
11-09-2004, 02:22 PM
You know, I've been stopped and questioned more times in the last four years (five times), then in all the 25 years before. It's a bit of a hassle if you ask me, but I'm glad our fees are going towards something in the way of poacher prevention.

MB_Kevin
11-09-2004, 10:03 PM
Sorry christopherjake I have know idea on the 18" to the hook. I know when i have fished there from bank I mostly have a weight at the bottom and about 6" up a hook and about another foot up another hook. never even thought about a law against it.

I have bought allot of fishing licenses and have never filled it out at the store or ever been given a regs book...even when i ask for one. one time i found a book at K-mart but that wasn't when or where I had bought the license. That is the only one Ive ever seen :-/

GCinGV
11-10-2004, 06:12 AM
Someone told me that they donít even print the regs anymore and that they are only available on line. Does anyone know if this is true? If it is true it seems to me that theyíve opened a legal can of worms. Can a person that doesnít own a P.C., and not everyone does, be held responsible to abide by obscure regulations that they donít really have access to?
GC

Empire
11-10-2004, 06:35 AM
I found printed 2004 regs at WalMart.

Seems to me more places used to have them.

Mickey_Thomas
11-10-2004, 07:01 AM
Most tackle shops have the reg's. Usually not in Jan. (they hit the stores around March) and you have to usually ask for them ;) I wonder how much the lic. will cost us next year? 2005 ???

fishn4me
11-10-2004, 08:02 AM
The way things are going with go old California, I would say some of us might have to take out a personal loan for a 2005 fishing licence. >:(

B-RUN_STEELIE
11-10-2004, 09:07 AM
This is an intresting thread. I have read a few statements that are true and a few that are sort of way out there.

Lets talk about trespassing. My family owns a rather large ranch near Grangeville Idaho. It backs up to national forrest land. When I was a kid, we did not even have it fenced off ( in the 70's) We fenced it in and posted it in the mid 80's. It is a known hot spot for Whitetailed deer in the area ( There is a late season for them starting this week in fact and runs through the 20th ) In certain years when we get a lot of snow up high, it will hold a good number of Whitetails. At any rate.. we have a lot of problems with 1> people shooting deer from the road, jumping the fence, and taking off. 2> People telling us that they have permission to hunt there ( thats the best, telling the owners that they have permission) 3> People accessing through the forrest service land, jumping the fence, shooting deer and hauling them back out the way they came. The back is posted also... there is no way you can say you did not see it or know it was posted.

At first, we would go down and tell people they were tresspassing and ask them to leave. We would also let a few people hunt if they came up to the house at a resonable hour and present themselves. This also became a problem. If I said you could hunt, I expect that you understand that means you... not your buddies or buddies, buddies... I also expect that you tell me when you will be there. I can't tell you how many times we have had some a-hole sit there and tell us all about how our land was not legally posted etc etc etc.... tELL THE JUDGE... YOU'LL BE SEEING HIM SOON

Anyway, about 1992 things came to a head. A couple of guys from Washington state shot a rather large buck from the road. My mom went down there on a 4 wheeler and told them that 1> they were trespassing and 2> shooting from the road is a form of poaching. They responded by calling her a old B!tch.. and made threats about kicking her ass. ( she was 64 at the time) She was the only one home at the time so they got away. She did report them to the sherrif however. The next year she called my brother to come up there. The same rig was parked at one of the gates. He walked up a draw and found the hunters. He asked them to come on down to the house and talk with my mom. Their guns were leaning on a tree so he picked them both up and started down the hill with them. These guys were furious but followed him because he had their guns. When they got to the house, she pointed one of them out as being the one who threatend her the year before. He told her to go inside and call the sherrif. In the mean time, this guy starts on my brother telling him that if he does not give his gun back he is going to kick his ass.. that was it.. somebody did get their ass kicked and it was not my brother. When the Idaho county sherif pulled up, the guy starts demanding that my brother be arrested for assult... Long story short, these guys wound up in jail. They lost their guns, they lost their licence ( and the ability to buy one in Idaho for 5 years) 2 LESSONS HERE- 1> Don't be so sure your right when you are on posted land. 2> Don't call my mom a B!tch and think your going to get away with it.

I have 100 storys about decoy deer.. its pretty popular up here. The best involve guys who shoot at one, blow a huge chunk of its head off, and shoot it three more times because it won't fall down.. You gotta be brain dead to do something like that. One of the local wardens says " as a general rule, most of these guys we catch are pretty darn good shots "...

Reno_Flytyer
11-10-2004, 09:30 AM
Great story B-run...love it when justice comes to a nice lady! I envy the satisfaction your brother must have gotten from "straightening" things out! The friggin' nerve of some people is unbelievable!
RFT

B-RUN_STEELIE
11-10-2004, 10:00 AM
Yea, that story comes up all the time when we are all together. She is a nice lady and was being nice when she approched them. She was even nice while they waited for the sherrif ( she went in the house and got a bag of ice for the dude to put on his eye )and offered them coffie while they waited

Another time in about 97, some guys opened up a gate ( with a no trespassing sign right on it) and drove in with a new ford diesel) While they were up there, my dad went down on the 4 wheeler again and put a lock on the gate so they could not get out. They got the idea to run the truck through the gate. Anyway, it was 3 strand Barbed wire and it got all wrapped around the front wheel so bad they could not drive. After the sherrif got there, he lent them some fence cutters to get it off their rig. It cost em that time also. ::)

Point is, it only takes a few bad apples to ruin a good thing for everyone. And no matter what, there will be a few bad apples.

Reno_Flytyer
11-10-2004, 12:00 PM
Comes down to respect, values, manners, & morals...just like the last election!! ;) RFT

Line_Zinger
11-15-2004, 09:52 AM
OK I got one for ya...
Fishing with my Son and two friends on the O'Neil four bay
The day was rather slow and decided to head in. Mid July little hot and the boat ramp was full. So decided to go ahead and clean the fish while waiting for the ramp to clear up a bit. So took out the Filet board and begin to clean up. Was just through with the last fish (Only had 4) i see a boat coming at me at full steam. He comes along side and asked what I thought I was doing I explained I was cleaning my fish waiting on the boat ramp. He told me that was illegal and if I want to clean my fish I had to do it and the cleaning station and was going to have to site me. I asked for what? He quoted so obscure F&G reg (that is not published in the book by the way) that it was illegal to have "fish on the boat of indeterminate size" I asked if he would like to see the caucuses that I had them right there and said no. at that point I have become a little steamed and asked to see the reg. His partner in the boat with a smug face went to get the book and the ranger told him that it wasnít in there. About that time I have become pissed and am displaying that to them. The Partner then begins to harass me about safety equipment and where are my Life vests, whistle or horn, fist aid kit things like that once I produced all of the above I started to put things back into order. He then informs me that he wanted them "left out" that that was the way he likes to see them. I inform him that it didnít matter what he like it was a matter of law and that they where onboard and accessible. About that time the ranger hands me the ticket and tells me to Sign. I sign the ticket and he leaves. I then have to take the Day at court to tell a judge and a DA what the guys was talking about when they read the case the judge and DA smirked and let me go. To make a point you are not supposed to Clean or Cut you fish on the boat the can disfigure them so that size cannot be determined. Even through I had the Bodies to prove itÖ

Z--

Christopherjake
10-16-2005, 08:29 AM
Has anyone been cited latey?

Reno_Reeler
10-16-2005, 06:12 PM
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/741/drillsergeant9ur.gif*I've never been cited. *I did have my license checked by the tribal ranger for the first time in 25 years that I've been fishing Pyramid Lake.

Flipper266
10-16-2005, 06:28 PM
I have had my liscence checked this year alone at least 15 times....
Glad they are out there checking. Good to see our dollars are going somewhere.
Never been cited but it would take me to catch something first!

Having a SLOW year... :(

Flipper266
10-16-2005, 06:29 PM
By the way B_Run...

ANyone calls my mother that wouldnt have left my property alive.

Glad they got popped. ;D
And glad your bro did some justice himself....

fishnhockey
10-17-2005, 05:40 PM
Never been cited, never seen a warden with the exception of when I was a d.o. at the jail and one brought somebody into intake.
My question though is, with so few wardens in the state and so many poachers and pollution issues, why are they wasting time on the little people who aren't really doing anything wrong? There aren't enough of them as it is, don't be getting distracted by the guy with his kid or nit picking, find the real problem people that are actually causing damage to our environment and wildlife.
just my two cents.

fishrman4life
10-17-2005, 07:00 PM
Dept. of Water Resources anyone? >:( >:( >:(

vito
10-18-2005, 07:55 AM
Ever since I posted the story about getting my lifetime license, I have not been checked - not even once! Irony??

FishinFool408
10-18-2005, 09:35 AM
It figures, Murphy's law I guess! The moment that you forget to put it on (although I doubt that'll be the case with the bad luck that you've had) the man will be on you like flies on sh_t! ;D

Christopherjake
10-18-2005, 12:30 PM
I've had my boat for two years now, fish approximately once a week and I have never been asked for my fishing license. I can't say that was the case when I fished from the bank.

My partner and I believe that the DFG must think people who fish from a boat are more experienced anglers who know the rules and regs, have their fishing license and don't take illegal fish so they don't bother.

What do you Sniffers think?

FishinFool408
10-18-2005, 12:49 PM
That may be true, but eventually, your time will come.

vito
10-18-2005, 02:13 PM
It seems to me that being checked while on a boat has a lot to do with the popularity of the spot and the season. if you fish in busy areas, that is where the cops go - better chance of citing someone. Ex,... if you are anywhere near Folsom lake during the summer there is a good chance you will be checked. During the fall and winter at Folsom - there are rarely any sheriffs around. I tend to fish in remote areas, during the fall and winter seasons and seldom will I ever even see law enforcement. I think it is more common to be checked on the delta as well. I have never seen law enforcement anywhere but the American river - hatchery area, Folsom during the summer, Sac river - Old Sac area and Rollins lake. I have seen fish counters at the outlet, but other than that no cops.

tdekens
10-18-2005, 03:28 PM
Most game wardens are jerks. I think the job gets to them after awhile. I have never gotten a ticket but my cousin works for DFG and this is a funny story. Last year the game warden walks into the DFG office and says"Guess what? I just got George Seiferts autograph" The other employees said wow thats cool. He says its right here on this ticket, he had a couple of the wrong ducks." I have only had my license checked about 4 times. I found out this year it is illegal to catch fish after you have your limit. I forget the name on the salmon board but there is a guy with pictures of fishing at the outlet and catching salmon last week. I had gotten back my email from DFG about 2 months ago asking them about catch and release after you have caught your quota or if the species was closed. Nope once you got your limit you must stop fishing. As soon as you get the fish on the line it is considered possession. I email fish and game occasionally to clarify a rule for me.
2Shakes ;D ;D 8)

fishnhockey
10-18-2005, 03:58 PM
Ok, I didn't know that, so does that count for all species of fish? the limit thing...

Christopherjake
10-18-2005, 04:05 PM
FishinFool408 -

I'm not implying that I fish illegally from a boat. I'm only saying that DFG seems to check those fishing from the bank more often than they check those fishing from a boat.

Smeja
10-19-2005, 02:22 AM
I was checked for the first time about 2 months ago at the deep water channel. I almost socked the officer in the face and would have if he had not been an DFG. I figure I wouldnt live that one down in court.

I was fishing a friend was with me (I was fishing. he wasnt!) The 2 officers pull up. Before they can say anything I hand them my licence reel in my pole show them my bait and say we have no fish in our possesion. The DFG officer appeared to be not more then 22 years old. Walked over to were I had my poles and said ''you have 5 poles here'' I said ''you can count very good''. (ya probably not the right response). He then says the poles are ''in the water''. I said well the tide has come up sense we started talking yes the noze of 2 of the poles with no hook or bait are in the water. He said ''i should write you up for this''.

Then he said ''i dont believe you both arent fishing'' I said ''i'm the only one fishing'' he said unless your friend can go buy a licence in the next 45 minutes I'm writing you both up. One for not having a licnece and the other for having more then one pole ''in the water''.

My friend went and bought his licence and they let us off with a warning.

Fishmeister
10-20-2005, 01:09 PM
How old is this Wade? The only run in with the man I have had in California is the year I moved here from Nevada. It was the day after New Years 1981 and a buddy and I went to do some bank fishing at Salmon Falls. I had been buying California non-resident licenses for years. Didn't even cross my mind that it had expired a day ago. We were fishing in a crowd of people for about an hour. The warden walked down the hill directly to me, asked for my license. I took out my 80 license and was of course informed it was outdated. Cost me $50. He walked off without talking to another person. How the heck did he know???
BTW Longliner, if you think this is a gestapo state, try Colorado some time!!!

Smeja
10-21-2005, 01:40 AM
I'll tell a story about wade johnson I got 2 actually.

My buddy was out deer hunting shot a deer early in the day. Gutted the deer. We were hunting with some friends. While gutting his deer he set his gun down and forgot it there. He and 5 of other guys drove back to look for it at around 8pm after dark of course. They made sure to lock all the rifles up in their cases and even go as far as to put the ammo in another guys truck and leave that truck back at camp just to make sure it didnt appear they were hunting.They got out and found the rifle in 5 minutes. In that time Wade drove up saw them with their ''spot light'' a mag flashlight. They told him their story. He said ''thats probably true i'm still gonna write you a ticket for spotlighting deer at night.'' He even took my buddys rifle.

About 5 years ago I ran into wade out at spenceville wildlife. I didnt know him. I asked him a question to see what kinda guy he was. I said if someone was to shoot one shot and kill 2 hen ducks already had one hen in their possesion (I believe the limit was 2 back then). turned themself into you trying to do the right thing what would you do. ''I would give them a ticket. it would be my lucky day'' that was his response.

He is a jerk plain and simple. its people like him that give the whole DFG office and every worker there a bad name and make the rest of us that are doing the right thing affraid to see them.

sneak1000
10-21-2005, 10:08 AM
How old is this Wade? *The only run in with the man I have had in California is the year I moved here from Nevada. *It was the day after New Years 1981 and a buddy and I went to do some bank fishing at Salmon Falls. *I had been buying California non-resident licenses for years. Didn't even cross my mind that it had expired a day ago. *We were fishing in a crowd of people for about an hour. *The warden walked down the hill directly to me, asked for my license. *I took out my 80 license and was of course informed it was outdated. *Cost me $50. *He walked off without talking to another person. *How the heck did he know???
BTW Longliner, if you think this is a gestapo state, try Colorado some time!!!

I think its because they change the color of the licences every year..like your car registration

vito
10-24-2005, 10:40 AM
Whew! I'm relieved to hear these stories. Only because now I know I don't have a Target on my back. Yes, this officer Johnson is a piece of work. I guess he must be in his 50's. Not exactly a gung ho, straight out of the academy kinda guy. He obviously gets a nut off victimizing innocent people. There is a bit of ambiguity written into most laws and regulations. I tend to believe that this is done intentionally so that officers can make judgements about the severity of an infraction and make decisions based upon their own experiences. A person of shallow character can exploit that to elevate themselves emotionally. There are obviously those who use that as a way to make themselves feel better. I really do believe that DFG regs were written to protect species and prevent poaching. There is absolutely no logic in citing a soaking wet cancer patient or a dad who baited their kids hook for them. Believe me, the stocked trout population of Rollins lake is not better off because of these 2 citations! There is no excuse for the problems caused by this man. He really should be fired.

"Cause in the town it is well known, when he goes home at night, his fat psychopathic wife will thrash him within inches of his life!"

Sardine
10-26-2005, 02:06 AM
Vito, we have a nut down here in Monterey that likes to cite us for fishing for Salmon with a barbless hook when we are fishing with a barbless hook. That got us so scared that everytime we catch a fish we start getting nervous & looking around over our shoulder because we feel we must be doing something wrong if we are catching fish. Most fishermen think Wardens our on their side, but they are not. They want to shut down the entire fishery & keep us from fishing anywhere. They are not sportsmen anymore they are people who want to keep us from fishing everywhere for anything now.

FreshwaterFrank
10-26-2005, 04:03 AM
I've never been cited, and never been badly harassed by a warden...but I know that's just luck....so far. I've seen it happen & there but for fortune etc. They're just the same as cops, and if one decides you're going down, right or wrong...you are toast.

I deal with the various law officers all the same way, based on their almost universal observed psychology. Game Wardens are really no different than County Mounties, CHP etc.

#1, Anyone with a badge & a gun is a law unto themself when you deal with them, regardless who/what they are officially warranted to represent. Ignore this fact at your peril.

#2. Officers are also regular people, so treating them differently, acting devious, being a wise-a** etc. will just irritate them. Be a smart-a** and you'll lose every time. Save any smart talk until AFTER the deal is done...if you still find it necessary to be dumb enough to pi** off someone with a badge & a gun.

#3. Most officers want to be "good guys", and they have a self-image of being "good guys". Actually, most of them really are...they just have a lousy job to do. They'd rather help someone out, than to have to deal with jerks & criminals. Helping people is the part of their job that they enjoy, usually. You can use this fact, if you're smart & can resist the impulse to play lawyer... or to be a wise-guy with them. Whenever I must deal with an officer, I purposely try to remove about 50 IQ points from my brain, & I act like a slightly dim, but good-natured person. This arouses both the officer's need to be superior, and his desire to help out...and it helps in defusing any confrontational potential. I may still get cited, but more often than not it's a warning & a talking to instead. For sure, arguing with an officer will always be counterproductive.

#4. Never, ever, ever stare at officers, or even make eye contact unless required to. They have a kind of radar for this, & are automatically suspicious of anyone who is looking at them. On the other hand, when you do have to deal with an officer, look 'em in the eyes when you talk to them, because they're automatically suspicious of someone who doesn't.

#5. If you're unfortunate enough to be dealing with an a**hole officer, and they're rare but they obviously exist...forget psychology & go into a POW mindset...ride it out, name rank & serial #...take your lumps & just try to get through it with your freedom intact.


I treat Game Wardens & cops exactly alike, because there isn't much difference in regards to their ability to mess with your freedom & your life. The one difference is that I will sometimes purposely talk to Wardens, if I have a real question about game laws etc. In this way, I'll meet the local ones, & if they later spot me from the bushes in their binos...they might remember who I am & that I'm a local, & I think that may help in some cases. So far so good, but I know it only takes one bad experience to blow all my theories into the water. I've seen it happen to others.

Anyways, all just FWIW,,,

fish4fun
10-26-2005, 08:14 AM
I agree with what Frank just said.. most officers are good guys. Luckily, I've never been harassed or cited. I did see a young stud officer up at an Eagle Lake opener harass a young boy. The kid had just come back from a day of fishing with his family. They had a nice stringer of fish and the kid was proudly carrying the stringer along the beach while walking back to camp with his family. The young stud officer confronted the kid and threatened to cite him. Why? Because the stringer had more than 2 fish. According to the officer, each member of the family had to carry their own fish and no one's stringer could exceed the 2 fish possession limit. I left shaking my head! The officer scared the sh*t out of the kid and his family. None of them really broke the law.. just a proud kid carrying the family stringer.. Larry

FishinFool408
10-26-2005, 11:08 AM
FishinFool408 -

I'm not implying that I fish illegally from a boat. *I'm only saying that DFG seems to check those fishing from the bank more often than they check those fishing from a boat. *

Yeah CJ, you have a point there.

FreshwaterFrank
10-26-2005, 01:25 PM
!@#%&*^##! frikken cops!!!

So this AM. I go down to Angels Camp to try & collect 5 stinking dollars from this deadbeat who owes me & has been !@^^$##! me off. An Angels Camp Police Cruiser pulls in behind me & follows me down HWY 49 downtown. I pull into a parking spot in front of my guy's business & the lights go on...I am busted right there on Main Street!

Mr. Mickey Mouse Keystone Cop Officer (Illegible) dickhead deluxe & partner (who stands behind my truck with hand on gun) asks for license, reg. & POI. & then explains that I "turned into the parking spot awfully fast". No comment from me, just compliance.

He goes back to squad car for awhile, then returns & asks me how many drinks I've had this morning! !@$%^&%$##@! frikking %%^%$$###!!! NONE you ##%^^$##!!

I get the whole sobriety check on the sidewalk..which I pass...duh!!!! and then he goes through my truck. It's called a "consensual search" which means...if you don't consent to it they'll do it anyways.

Not finding anything, they decide to do a complete safety check on my truck. To make a long story short, I get a citation for "failure to signal a turn" "inoperative brake lights" and "weak lighting system'. Probably cost me a million dollars.

**^%^%$#@!!#$ COPS!!!! Forget anything nice I ever said about any of them! AAAAAARRRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

Beware of the Angels Camp City Keystone Cops! They will mess with you bad. This is the last time I ever tempt fate, & so much as even refer to their pathetic existence. If I can afford it, I'm going fishing. Sheeesh!

SUNRISECHASER
10-26-2005, 02:31 PM
Vito better change his fishing spots!!!!!! :D

fishdude76
10-26-2005, 03:00 PM
Sorry to hear about the bad luck Frank. Seems like they were gonna write you up for something regardless.

I've had both good and bad experiences with law enforcement. I've been let off of tickets a couple of times because of my dazzling personality, laughs, really i was just very polite with a yes sir, no sir, and was also honest about the infraction. One time it was just because I was a local, he looked at my DL and said oh youre a local, have a nice night. I have also been harassed and had the guy looking for anything he could get on me. The later of the two are the kids in school that were picked on and felt they had no power. Then they get into a job that has power such as law enforcement, teachers, and judges. I do believe they get the same satisfaction of power and control as serial killers, just not to that extreme. There are some really sick minded people out there. The enjoyment they get from having the power to control some aspect of your life.

To cite someone for baiting his child's hook is absolutely ridiculous. Some of the posts I have read on here are absurd. You would think that by showing up to court you could actually have a say in your case, but that seems not to be the case in some...cases.

I did run into one Fish & Game guy in Mass. this past spring that was a jerk. My brother and I wanted to do some fishing while visiting our family. We went to this lake and saw the F&G guy sitting in his truck. I get out of our car, which we parked next to him, and asked him how people have been doing. He said its been pretty dead and was very short, like we disturbed him. So we grab our rods and packs out of the car and start on our way. He waits until we get a ways from him then he calls us back over to check our licenses. He was being pretty rude about the whole thing. Almost like we were trespassing on his own personal property. So being me, I started to be over polite asking him questions on what to use etc. I could tell it was pissing him off. So I brought up the fact that my grandpa was a Forest Warden for 15 years there before he retired. For some reason the F&G guy became really friendly and knocked off his attitude. All in all I still think the guy was an a-hole and don't understand why people like that are in the duty of servicing the public.

To all the a-holes that get thrills from ruining good citizens lives...can't we all just get along?

FD76

padrino
10-26-2005, 04:42 PM
this is a good thread. i have been checked a few times and aalways had things in order. sometimes they have been more of a problem than others.

a humorous story, i came home from work one summer evening and changed into my shorts and told my son we were going fishing. we headed south from san jose to uvas reservoir. when i pulled off the road the sheriff pulled in behind me. the tags were expired on my explorer, but i had mailed the check in time. the guy asks for my drivers license and registration. i had the registration and my drivers license was @ home in my work pants. i told him i left it at home and i had my fishing license which had my drivers license number written on it. he kind of chuckled and asked my son (about 12 at the time) if he wanted to drive the car home while i went to jail. he son's eyes lit up and he said sure. the guy ran my license and plates and told me his computer showed my tags were paid and i would recevie them shortly and to have a nice day. my son was dissappointed about not driving but the guy was pretty cool.

kevin 'padrino'

Steelhead
10-27-2005, 08:09 AM
This year on Klamath, boats were checked throughly at the pullout, even the guides and myself. Cards licenses, hooks, life jackets, coolers and fish boxes. I really don't have a problem with that.

In Oregon and Washington, State Police enforce fish and wildlife laws. Since the Patriot act, they are allowed to pull anyone over who meets a profile. Out of State plates, long hair and new pick-up is the profile of a drug smuggler. I've been pulled over 3 times in 18 months. At this point I've taken to putting the hair under a baseball cap.

Once you are pulled over and they see a fishing rod they ask if you have been fishing, the license and tag check happens and they crosscheck that with your drivers license.
At that point they ask if you can show them your fish or no fish, consentually of course. To do that you have to open the shell on the truck which gives them permission to rummage around.

One of the cops was a pig who wrote a rediculous ticket I beat in court, the other two were just doing a job.

Until the Patriot act goes away, old longhairs are the closest thing to a terroist these guys can find; or want to deal with ;D

SuperDave
10-27-2005, 09:10 AM
One of the things I've learned on this board is how many times I could have been written up without knowing I was doing something wrong. When threads start pulling the onion skin layers of the regulations back, I find little things I've done for years are illegal. :o Recently at Pyramidfest, I spoke with a few fellow sniffers that were using scent. I explained it was not legal. The tribe doesn't play nice either, or so I've heard.

fish4fun
10-27-2005, 11:49 AM
Scent at Pyramid is an interesting question. I've been wondering about it since we left the Fest. Does that mean all scents or only scents derived from some form of bait? For example what about anise? It comes from a plant and isn't a bait. What about WD-40?(though it's probably bad for the water) Maybe Doc, Bite Me II, or someone else who knows the Pyramid rules will enlighten us.. Larry

SuperDave
10-27-2005, 12:11 PM
Larry, the others will know for sure but I believe the big stumbling block is in the term, "artificial only". According to the regulations, anything that has ever lived or derived from a living thing is NOT artificial. Whether it was plant or animal.

fish4fun
10-27-2005, 07:31 PM
Hinrid, Then what about lures made out of wood? ;D ;D.. Larry

FreshwaterFrank
10-28-2005, 06:52 AM
I've always heard that WD-40 is illegal as a scent? Is this a legend, or true? If it is, why in the world would any fish be attracted to that chemical odor? Maybe we should start trying B-12 Chemtool & Liquid Wrench.

fish4fun
10-28-2005, 07:39 AM
Frank, WD-40 may be illegal because it pollutes the water. I really don't know. I do know that it's been used as a fish attractant and reportedly works. Sturgeon guys have told me it works. When I fished bass tournaments a number of people were using it in the early days. Afterwards, a whole bunch of scents proliferated the market and tournament guys had a lot of other choices. I don't know why exactly WD-40 would work. I seem to remember explained it once in a message he posted quite some time ago. I think maybe it had some similar amino acids or something that other fish attractants have.. Larry

fish4fun
10-28-2005, 07:42 AM
I meant to say that "Doc" had explained once it in a previous post.. Larry

Smeja
10-28-2005, 11:32 AM
speaking of cops. i hate em plain and simple (not all just most of em). To work I drive a lifted nice looking chevy i work in construction. i've been pulled over NO BS! 3 *times atleast. They basically say ''well it seems like you cant afford this truck so we pulled you over'' WTH? I'm white I wear nice clothes what are they talking about? I'm too young? i guess so.

Then when I'm just driving around I drive a beat up looking geo prizm as it gets 35+ mpg compared to like 12 in my truck. Anyways. I get pulled over in that for ''suspecion'' I seriously think I've been pulled over 5 times in that. I've NEVER had a ticket just been plain harrased. I've been pulled over twice just coming home from fishing in the last 6 months. Do I got a sign on my head?

One cop on H49 pulled me over PULLED HIS GUN on me first words out of his mouth ''hey F-face'' He yelled at me for 10 minutes and left. He said I ashed my cigar out the window. i dont think I did. I dont usually but whatever maybe i wasnt paying attention. I tried to report him but got the run around and gave up.

Steelhead
10-28-2005, 09:06 PM
Welcome to the Patriot Act. Do you have brown or suntanned skin? They just want to make sure you know who's hoss...I meant boss ;D

FatCat
10-30-2005, 08:31 AM
The first and only time a ranger has checked my license was just a few weeks ago at Rossmore. He checked my hook first, and ADMIRED my crimp job on the barb. He checked my license -- good to go! I thanked the man for a job well done.

He did pop another guy at Rossmore for not crimping his barb enough and for fishing with an expired license.

I can understand why people feel nervous around cops. One time I was stopped while walking down the street at night. The cop gave me full force spotlights, pulled a gun on me and asked if I had any warrants for my arrest. I said "no..." and he yelled,
"then why are you so nervous?" I did not reply but I felt that being randomly stopped and having a gun pulled on you by ANYONE was reason enough to be nervous. He had nothing to get me on, as I am an upstanding citizen, and eventually left me alone after running my name through the system.
In certain places, having long hair still seems to constitute probable cause!

Set_The_Hook
10-30-2005, 05:44 PM
Saw two wardens pinch a guy today at upper sailor. Earlier we watched the guy release a "tail biter" ,after he moved the gibbs from the tail to the mouth and the guy next to him advised him that the warden was taking pictures.
When I got back to my truck, the fellow in question had his fish laid out on the warden's tailgate, pleading his innocence. I think they watched him hook all of his fish. Somehow I don't think they were "mouth biters" ;)
I talked to the wardens after that for about 5 min. Seemed like nice guys, just out doing the best they can.
STH

Striperman
11-02-2005, 10:07 AM
That was too much for me man. When the guy moved the hook from the tail to the mouth i lost it. just started laughing. haha. Ive been sighted once on the water and twice in my car. The time in the water was a misunderstanding and wont ever happen again. The two times in my truck were by the same officer. I drive a 93 teal green chevy with balls hanging off the back. Does that make me a target. I think it does. Does that guy know who i am now and what i drive, yes he does and now ever time i see that cop he always follows me and glares at me waiting for me to make a wrong move. That guy just gives cops a bad name. I also know a guy that got a ticket for doing 26 in a 25zone. The cop was trying to hide and the guy waved to him when he drove by and the cop pulled him over and got a ticket. What a prick!!! I have friends that are cops and such and dont have a problem with the law but come cops and DFG wardens, and Parks and Rec. officers just get a power trip!

Striperman

sigmapirockstar
11-02-2005, 01:08 PM
No, I have'nt been cited, and do not feel scared when dfg rolls by, I don't do anything illegal though. I did fish two poles for a minute, but then think that it's not worth the 1 million dollar fine that could occur. They are like cops, if you aren't doing anything wrong, then you don't have to worry.

sigmapirockstar
11-02-2005, 01:32 PM
Oh yeah!! I just remembered, one time I was fishing in a wildlife preserve (catch and release) that I thought was legal (the sign was buried in the weeds) and my wife and I got caught by a dfg ranger. He just told us to not fish there anymore, and kinda laughed at us. But I remained cool about it and he let us go with a warning (my life story). haha.