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View Full Version : Caught and released- only for someone else to keep



ttmike42
11-23-2007, 03:34 PM
What would you do?
I was at jackson meadows res this summer, fishing with my buddy who is new to the sport. I was hoping to indoctrinate him to the sport as a polite fisherman.

We got there early and immediately hooked into a 10 inch rainbow. Being new to the sport, I took care to take the hook out and release the little guy in the hopes he would grow to a decent sized keeper one day.

Well we continued to fish, and caught the little guy again! We both joked that if we caught him again we should keep him!

About this time, several people sat down 5 feet away from us and tossed their power bait out. Not being a fan of fishing within several feet of someone else, we moved on.

After our day of fishing, we had to hike back past these folks. Looking down into their trap, there was our little 10 inch rainbow in their trap.

I was disgusted. Aside from the legality, what were these folks planning on doing with such a little fish? Barely a meal for a housecat!!!

So, here is my question: What should I have done? What would you do in a situation like that? In retrospect, I should have not even said anything and released the poor fish myself and if they got uppity, called a fish and game ranger to fix their wagon.

I'm sure I'll see this pathetic display of greediness and stupidity in the future, and I'd like to know how I should act so as to remain a diplomat for our sport. Remember, speaking english was not an option with these folks... Thanks :)

jiggity49
11-23-2007, 03:46 PM
why were these people stupid or greedy? they kept a legally sized fish? Read the regs. in CA there is no min. size limit for rainbows unless there is a specific rule for the area they are fishing. I haven't ever fished that body of water before so I am not sure if there are any special regs. but in most all waters in CA keeping a 10" bow is legal. I do agree with you though that it is good to release these little guys and let them grow up but that is up to the fisherman

_Gone_Fishin_
11-23-2007, 03:46 PM
I don't agree with what these folks did. >:(

But, they had every right to keep the 10 inch trout :(

fernley_tim
11-23-2007, 03:48 PM
hate to burst your bubble a 10" planter is a legal fish and a good size to eat try it next time ;)

metalmouth
11-23-2007, 03:57 PM
Edited:

Grizz
11-23-2007, 04:26 PM
Unless you are law enforcement, you have no business trying to enforce your interpretation of the law, which, in this instance, was wrong. *If someone is breaking the law, and it bothers you enough, contact the proper law enforcement agency and let the professionals handle it. * *

troutfan
11-23-2007, 04:29 PM
As has been stated previously you should get famiiar with the regs before you judge someone else's actions. *I'm with MM as far as eating those little fellows. *Fry them up with some lemon pepper and eat them bones and all. *Catch and release is a good idea but as *MM also stated many of those little guys that are stocked in the summer don't make it through a harsh winter anyway. *As long as people are within their legal limits catch and release is a personal choice. ;)

ttmike42
11-23-2007, 04:33 PM
I had no idea there was no legal size limit on rainbow, unless there were special regs.

I grew up in a family that released anything below 15 inches or so.

I love to eat fish as much as anyone else here. I vehemently disagree with anyone who takes these little fish. It is no wonder fishing in CA has become tougher and tougher through the years. I'm sure there are other reasons, but I would implore anyone who thinks keeping any rainbow just because they can to reconsider.

Just because most planters don't survive the first year on their own is no reason to expedite that process.

Well, that is my opinion, and just like everyone elses, it stinks I'm sure ;)

Peace.

Dan Bacher
11-23-2007, 04:36 PM
The fisherman that took the 10 inch trout was exercizing his right to catch and keep a trout under the California Fish and Game Code. The fish was probably either a hatchery holdover or a fish that grew from a fingerling, so it was a fish that was intended for people to catch and eat. Catch and release can be an effective management tool for preserving and restoring wild trout, salmon and other fish populations, but I've met people on the water who consider "catch and release" more of a religion than a management strategy.

It all comes down to common sense, although I know that according to Mark Twain, "common sense isn't all that common." If you don't plan to eat a fish in an area where you can legally keep fish, then by all means release it. However, if somebody else wants to catch and eat a fish, that's their right.

I personally prefer trout in the 12 to 20 inch range to keep because you can fillet them more easily than the small ones for a tasty fish dinner. But if the smaller ones - like a 10 inch rainbow - are the only ones being caught and it's a tough day of fishing, I would probably keep the fish. I love to eat trout, especially from High Sierra lakes like Jackson Meadows.

fishguts
11-23-2007, 05:01 PM
Some cultures will eat the entire fish and leave nothing to waste.
Just some food for thought.

ttmike42
11-23-2007, 07:49 PM
I use the entrails and head as crawdad bait :)

So does anyone know why no limit on crawdads? Are they bad for the fishing?

Athlete24
11-23-2007, 09:41 PM
You can catch as many crawdads as you want because I don't think that they are going to be over fished anytime soon. *I've seen hundreds of crawdads caught under a dock and then hundreds more caught the next day, there are just so many of them they don't care.

fish_food
11-24-2007, 12:01 AM
That rainbow was bred specifically for a put-and-take fishery. That's where a big chunk of the license revenues are spent on.

It's not like that trout was capable of reproducing and was part of the natural population. They're planted to be eaten.

cjvholsey2
11-24-2007, 07:44 AM
I say keep the little ones and release the big ones. I don't keep any trout over 12". Leave the big ones for someone else to catch and enjoy. That 10" fish would have probably got eaten by a big bass anyway.

johnbfishin
11-24-2007, 11:01 AM
Another thing to consider is the population of fish in a lake. Two lakes that I can think of off the top of my head, Beardsley and Jackson Meadows are heavily planted. They can use some thinning out which, at least in theory allows enough food source for a few bigger fish rather than a bunch of little ones.

Budman
11-24-2007, 12:18 PM
The only thing I would add to the above, Mike, is that you went fishing to enjoy yourself. *Having a confrontation with another angler can really sour your mood after an otherwise pleasant day on the shore. *And it would set a bad precedent for your inexperienced fishing friend. *

I've seen what you are concerned about time and time again on Shasta. *Small Trout and small Bass (illegal fish uner 12") in their white plastic buckets. *One could call DF&G but the Wardens are spread so thin that contact is very unlikely.

Sounds like you did the right thing...

Toxic_Waste
11-24-2007, 02:18 PM
My first thought in regard to the discussion of a 10-inch rainbow trout was, "Wow, that's a big one!" :D Except for Eagle Lake trout and some Bass Lake bows and kokes, most of my fresh-water fishing occurs in the small High Sierra streams. When anyone returns to camp with a 10-incher in their creel, we all ohh and ahh. Most of the ones we pull out are smaller than that, but we all agree that those little ones taste way better than the big fatties.

My dad had a way of cooking trout in a wire mesh fish grilling basket right over the campfire coals. He'd salt and pepper them, lay bacon strips over the tops, then baste occasionally with a mixture of wine vinegar and olive oil. His basting brush was a bundle of fresh rosemary sprigs.

I know it is difficult for people when others do not share their beliefs, especially when it concerns animals, but it's probably best to avoid confrontations. Nowadays, you never know what might happen. To take somebody's fish might cause them to pull a gun on you! People have been shot for a lot less.

In the Fresno area, one time a man was shot at a stop light because the people in the car next to him didn't like him looking at them! Another time, an elderly man was pulled out of his car and beaten for the same reason! People are f-ing crazy.

HBFishin
11-24-2007, 02:24 PM
One part of this event that I do not see that anyone has mentioned was the trap.
If they were keeping a live fish in a trap, that is against regs, no?

I think you did the right thing in not saying anything, though I do not think I would have been able to hold my tounge when they started fishing 5 feet from me.
I would have been polite and informed them of some fishing etiquette.

Toxic_Waste
11-24-2007, 02:31 PM
I am wondering if the container was actually a real "trap" or just one of those perforated fish buckets.

HBFishin
11-24-2007, 04:20 PM
Either way I do not think you can keep live trout.

I know you cannot do it in a boat. I do not see why on the shore would be any different.

HookedForLife
11-24-2007, 05:35 PM
Either way I do not think you can keep live trout.

I know you cannot do it in a boat. I do not see why on the shore would be any different.



It is clear that you cannot keep live trout in or attached to a boat. This is to keep anglers from high-grading trout and moving live trout from one lake to another. However, I do not see any regulation restricting keeping trout alive from shore. It seems like it should not be allowed for the same reasons as stated above. In this situation, I would suspect that high-grading might be occurring.

MB_Kevin
11-24-2007, 11:49 PM
Man I could have just seen him taking it and throwing it back and then not being able to explain to them why. They would probably be tripping out. Why did this guy just walk up and throw are fish in the water :o Like others It would bother me more that they came up and started fishing 5' from me.

I'm not a regular trout fisherman and I never knew you could eat the bones of smaller ones. I do remember eating some trout tails as a kid that were good. What I'm getting from this thread is I can catch a small trout, Gut it, Salt and Pepper it, wrap it in bacon, fry it up and eat the whole thing 8-)

Toxic_Waste
11-25-2007, 12:27 AM
Hmmm...while stream fishing,the trout go in the creel, but when I fish from the shore of a lake, I always put the fish on a stringer and they swim around. I have had game wardens walk up to check the fish out and they've never said anything about them being kept alive. Maybe they were just letting it slide.

johnbfishin
11-25-2007, 06:30 AM
I don't think keeping trout alive on a stringer while bank fishing is against the regs, now if a fish was released and it went belly up it would be causing the waste of a game fish and that could be a problem. How this fits in with releasing under or over sized game fish that must be released whether they live of die I don't have a clue.
IMO this just shows how the regs can be interpreted or applied differently at any given time. :-/

Kneedeep
11-26-2007, 10:07 AM
What would you do?
I was at jackson meadows res this summer, fishing with my buddy who is new to the sport. I was hoping to indoctrinate him to the sport as a polite fisherman.

We got there early and immediately hooked into a 10 inch rainbow. Being new to the sport, I took care to take the hook out and release the little guy in the hopes he would grow to a decent sized keeper one day.

Well we continued to fish, and caught the little guy again! We both joked that if we caught him again we should keep him!

About this time, several people sat down 5 feet away from us and tossed their power bait out. Not being a fan of fishing within several feet of someone else, we moved on.

After our day of fishing, we had to hike back past these folks. Looking down into their trap, there was our little 10 inch rainbow in their trap.

I was disgusted. Aside from the legality, what were these folks planning on doing with such a little fish? Barely a meal for a housecat!!!

So, here is my question: What should I have done? What would you do in a situation like that? In retrospect, I should have not even said anything and released the poor fish myself and if they got uppity, called a fish and game ranger to fix their wagon.

I'm sure I'll see this pathetic display of greediness and stupidity in the future, and I'd like to know how I should act so as to remain a diplomat for our sport. Remember, speaking english was not an option with these folks... Thanks :)
You need to reread your post and try to see if you can understand what this post actually says about you. The only part I agree with is the fact that this group of people fished too close. As for you Remaining to be a Diplomat for our sport, Please don't speak on my behalf. Using phrases like ( if they got uppity) Seems to imply these people were somehow below you. I can only imagine what you said to your friend who is learning from you, or did he learn about you? What makes you think it's OK to release another persons fish? I'm usually trying to make people laugh but I can't seem to find anything funny about this.

dbass
11-26-2007, 12:26 PM
How close did you get to these guys, to recognize your fish, there has to be more than one 10"er out there :-?

BreakofDawn
11-26-2007, 01:27 PM
I will keep about five fish a year, mostly for my mother-in-law ;) good way to earn points ;D Anyway, I have fished many lakes and streams that are place and take and have actully givein up spots to kids or other anglers to enjoy. I use to gat mad when I would see a stringer full of fish but now I know that there are planted for the taking. Nothing you can do about it so you know the old saying "If you can't beat them join em ";D It is up to DGF now to keep up the fishery.....not you!

oldfisherman
11-26-2007, 07:34 PM
I agree that it is best to catch and release but I cannot fault those who fish for meat provided they do so legally. I really applaud the rangers at Mcclure for catching poachers I observed last spring. A truck load of hatchery trout had been released earlier on that day and we observed one group filling an ice chest with a limit then taking it to the car and emptying it into another chest then returning for another limit. They repeated this over and over but they did not fool alert rangers. They were busted and a few of us applauded.

ttmike42
11-27-2007, 05:42 PM
What would you do?
I was at jackson meadows res this summer, fishing with my buddy who is new to the sport. I was hoping to indoctrinate him to the sport as a polite fisherman.

We got there early and immediately hooked into a 10 inch rainbow. Being new to the sport, I took care to take the hook out and release the little guy in the hopes he would grow to a decent sized keeper one day.

Well we continued to fish, and caught the little guy again! We both joked that if we caught him again we should keep him!

About this time, several people sat down 5 feet away from us and tossed their power bait out. Not being a fan of fishing within several feet of someone else, we moved on.

After our day of fishing, we had to hike back past these folks. Looking down into their trap, there was our little 10 inch rainbow in their trap.

I was disgusted. Aside from the legality, what were these folks planning on doing with such a little fish? Barely a meal for a housecat!!!

So, here is my question: What should I have done? What would you do in a situation like that? In retrospect, I should have not even said anything and released the poor fish myself and if they got uppity, called a fish and game ranger to fix their wagon.

I'm sure I'll see this pathetic display of greediness and stupidity in the future, and I'd like to know how I should act so as to remain a diplomat for our sport. Remember, speaking english was not an option with these folks... Thanks :)
You need to reread your post and try to see if you can understand what this post actually says about you. The only part I agree with is the fact that this group of people fished too close. As for you Remaining to be a Diplomat for our sport, Please don't speak on my behalf. Using phrases like ( if they got uppity) Seems to imply these people were somehow below you. I can only imagine what you said to your friend who is learning from you, or did he learn about you? What makes you think it's OK to release another persons fish? I'm usually trying to make people laugh but I can't seem to find anything funny about this.

I was under the impression there was a minimum length for rainbow trout. If you were under the impression someone was doing ill to the lake you were fishing out of you are saying you wouldn't care?

BTW, my friend was more vehement about wanting to let the fish go, so he learned nothing from me.

Sorry you are so spineless you would do nothing in a situation you perceived to be wrong at the time. Don't preach to me, I'm a courteous and respectful fisherman who has seen the decline in california fishing over the years and actually gives a damn.

Had this fellow and his unlicensed friends not sat 5 feet from us and blocked up the trail on his way back, I never would have seen any fish he caught to begin with.

TNT
11-27-2007, 10:36 PM
If they were fishing without license, report the poaching at 1-888-DFG-CalTIP

fish_feeder32
11-27-2007, 11:02 PM
ttmike42 sometimes getting into someones business is the worst thing you can do even if you think it is for the right reason. One tine my friend saw some people with more than their limit of trout so he took the stringer and let the ones that where still alive go. And all it got him was the worst beating of his life and almost killed. He was left for dead when some hikers found him hours later. So call it spineless if you want but is your life realy worth it. Because you never know when you are messing around with someone who is willing to take it that far. It just aint worth it to me I choose to be spineless i guess and call cal-tip.

tarbuckle
11-28-2007, 10:19 AM
About this time, several people sat down 5 feet away from us and tossed their power bait out. Not being a fan of fishing within several feet of someone else, we moved on.



If your using Powerbait you should plan on keeping All THE FISH you catch. It's very rare you can release a fish unharmed caught on Power bait.

Kneedeep
11-28-2007, 12:45 PM
Mike you were asking for our input and I responded honestly. I suggested you reread your post, thinking you would see how other people reading your post might perceive it to be a little offensive at the least. You claim to be a courteous and polite fisherman, yet you talk about taking a fish off someones stringer and letting it go, you feel the fish is your fish because it's the same size as the one you caught and released earlier, you won't admit you were wrong about assuming that it's not legal to keep a 10" trout, you make reference to the people you are angry at, as unable to understand English, as if that would make your actions more justifiable. I would suggest you know the regulations instead of assuming that someone is breaking the law, if the law is in fact being broken, then call and report it with all the info you can gather. As for spineless, you try and take a fish off my stringer and I think you will have a different opinion about me. * * PEACE.

ocean314
11-28-2007, 08:02 PM
Hatchery trout are bred to be taken and eaten. Very few will survive over the winter till the next season.
Personally this attitude that has been spawned by the new generation of bass fisherman, using heavy tackle to yank spawning fish off their beds and justifying this pratice by later releasing the fish is the true disgrace of our sport. Catching spawning fish was unheard of until the bass fishing contests started up. Using 20 to 50lb test line to take a 3 to 10 lb fish was also considered a disgrace.
By the way I eat bass and I love them and those bass @#$#@$@ fisherman have cursed me and yelled at me, but I never take a spawning fish which destroys the nest in the process. I know many a shoreline homeowner that dreams of shooting a few of them just so they can sleep in over the roar of those 250 horse motors every @#$#@$ weekend.