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OregonBill
10-13-2005, 08:56 AM
I'm looking at motors, and have been offered a new Johnson 15 at a good price in a pckage deal. The dealer says he thinks the quality of the Evinrude/Johnson motors has improved subustantially in recent years. What say teh cognoscenti?

mjonesjr
10-13-2005, 10:57 AM
Well considering that I have $10K PWC with a Bombardier engine which at present is in the shop at 2 yrs old with 80 hrs, the fact that Iím anal about the extent that I take care if it and that it has already failed with no compression in the front cylinder Iím not real happy. They have a way of doing that and even though I know it I bought one anyway, did every possible preventive thing one can do it still failed. :o ??? :o

I think theyíre better manufactures for outboard who have better engineering and more experience in the area youíre looking for. I canít suggest a manufacture for you but if I were you I think Iíd go with someone else.

MankinD
10-13-2005, 05:59 PM
I would think they just bought the company, don't know that they have changed Johnson/Evinrude except maybe infused working capital. Can't see them sending in their engineers when Johnson already had a good thing. With all the motor companies and boat manufacturers that "Bomb." has picked up, we may not have much choice soon :-/

Doug

drstressor
10-13-2005, 07:15 PM
Can't see them sending in their engineers when Johnson already had a good thing

The problem was that Evinrude/Johnson had a bad thing that drove them out of business. The Ficht direct injection outboard system was a disaster with many failures and a technology that simply could not be fixed.

The 4-stroke Johnson engines are just re-badged Suzukis, which have been pretty reliable. The new Evinrude e-tech that replaces the Ficht technology is still unproven. This is the only technology that was developed by Bombardier.

fish4fun
10-13-2005, 11:29 PM
I second what Doc said. I'd like to add that Bombardier said that their engineers went through the entire Ficht engines one bolt at a time and made numerous improvements. I was reading Bombardier messages weekly and following what they said was going on. The original Ficht engine design was flawed. Not enough oil got distributed to lubricate it effectively. As a result a lot of engine heads blew up. Ticked off a lot off fisherman and put OMC into bankruptcy. I don't know how well the re-engineering done by Bombardier performed. Right now they are betting heavily on the E-tech two stroke technology. It will take another couple of years to see how it holds up.. Larry

MankinD
10-15-2005, 12:44 PM
I guess a lot happened in the 18 years that I wasn't looking at outboards. I'm still a bit suspicious of a company like "Bomb" that is swallowing up sections of a chosen industry at the rate they have. This always seems to lead to a lack of diversity and competiton which leads to complacentcy instead of progress. Bombardier is already suffering a lack of confidence in their most familier line, Sea-Doo. I would hate to see another AMF clone driving our trusted brand names into the ground (Harley-Davidson only rebounded when they were bought away from AMF). If OMC had slipped that badly, they should die a natural death, at the hands of the competiton.

basil
10-16-2005, 10:40 AM
I wouldn't go so far as to say the new E-Tecs are unproven technology. They have been out three years now and I haven't heard of any recalls or problems. In fact in my web searches for info on them, all I turned up was happy customers.

I found one post where a guy said there was a bass tournement down south where a bunch of E-Tecs died, but he gave no location and no information on what was wrong. I did some searching and turned up, nada. So, my bet is, it was someone that sold a different outboard, sour grapes.

drstressor
10-16-2005, 08:43 PM
The first e-tech hit the market in 2004 and the larger engines were not available until this year. Let's see how they hold up after 3 years before concluding that they are a robust technology. All of the Japanese engines were marketed in other countries for at least 3 years before the first ones were sold in the US. That's what I mean by proven technology.

fish4fun
10-16-2005, 09:48 PM
Just another fact about Johnson, Evinrude and Bombardier. When OMC went bankrupt the Bombardier Corp. acquired them. After about two years, Bombardier Corp. put Evinrude/Johnson up for sale just as they were beginning to bring the E-Tec motors to market. Bombardier Corp. had gotten the Evinrude/Johnson motor line operating in the black before they put it up for sale. There were a lot of interested buyers including other large companies that were already manufacturing outboards. Bombardier wanted to sell it to someone who wasn't already manufacturing outboards because they felt this would give the E-Tec technology to someone who would be more inclined to continue developing the E-Tecs successfully.

After offers from several interested parties, the Bombardier Corp. chose to sell Evinrude/Johnson to a group of Bombardier Family members rather than another outboard company. So, even though Evinrude/Johnson is now associated with the name Bombardier, it's with the Bombardier family members and not the large Bombardier Corp.. Larry

Vance Staplin
10-16-2005, 09:56 PM
I still say that if I have to spend big dollars on a Outboard motor. I don't want to be a test monkey.

I will stay with a time proven technology.


Vance

fish4fun
10-16-2005, 10:07 PM
Vance, I'm with you too. An outboard is too big an investment to be the guinea pig. Specially when there are so many well proven brands of motors out there. You might remember the definition of a pioneer?.. that's the guy with an arrow in his chest!.. or maybe some of the guys that bought the early Ficht engines! E-Tec may turn out to be great, but as far as I'm concerned they're still a new technology that needs some time to prove itself.

Furthermore, I prefer 4-stroke technology because I don't want to mess with replacing oil as I consume it. Using a 4-stroke on my boat gives me the benefit of an extra storage hold that would have been used to hold the oil reservoir for a 2-stroke.. Larry

riverrunt
10-17-2005, 09:47 AM
One word answer Yamaha

MankinD
10-20-2005, 06:59 PM
Stopped by the local dealer today to check out a 21ft center console boat. When the dealer brought up the manufacturer's web site we were both surprised to see that the motor options that listed one of the choices as an Evinrude E-Tec last week was now listed as a Bombardier E115 Tec now. Think I'll continue to look at the Honda or Yamaha choices.

Doug

basil
10-21-2005, 09:16 AM
The Evinrude E-Tec was first produced in 2003, so it's coming up on three years of use. The first motors were under 100 horses, but every year they expand the line up to larger engines. It comes with a three year warrenty and that's when it's due for it first maintenance.

I have done extensive research on the web looking for problems. The worst complaint I've found are a couple of times people have had to take them back and have them recalibrated because the dealer set the computer in them wrong.

As for oil, you put it in a tank on the engine and the engine mixes it. A tank of oil lasts around 50 hours. So in fact you don't need to store oil on your boat.

Not only will you not have to store oil, but you will have a 100 pounds less motor hanging off your transom. That means faster planing and better mileage. The 100 pounds less weight is based on the 90 horse, bigger engines will save you more weight. That's because 2 strokes weigh less.

I put the 90 Saltwater E-tec on my boat three weeks ago. I have run about 18 gallons of gas. That is three fishing trips so far, one into San Pablo Bay, and two runs from Bodega to Elephant Rock to troll for salmon. I used the motor to troll, also. It has done great so far. It starts on the first click and never dies. I know it's early but so far I am totally happy.