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Flameout
01-21-2009, 10:37 AM
I stumbled onto a phenomenon in a Northern CA. lake a few years ago whereby huge Rainbows and Brown stack up at the mouths of tributaries, apparently anticipating rising water, and the eventual spawn. We all make mistakes, and I am guilty of harvesting a few of these monsters in the past, not realizing the possible adverse impact. Not only are these fish vulnerable to eagles and such during this period, they are territorial, and will readily strike at any offering presented in an enticing fashion. Their meat resembles the opaque tint of a salmon that has been in fresh water a long time, and is not appetizing either, though the fish present with beautiful spawning colors.
I tramped through the snow yesterday to my favorite location, to witness this event once again, and immediately hooked up a 6lb. buck rainbow, wihich was carefully released. After releasing 6 or 7 more fish of lesser size, 3 guys armed with an 18 pack of Natural Light converged on me. This is an approximately 400 acre impoundment mind you, wih miles of shoreline, and no one else present. As my dog and I headed back for my truck, I watched helplessly as fish after fish was landed and banked. There was certainly nothing illegal taking place, but I would argue that it was not right.
I have learned much from this website over the years regarding technique, but have also learned much about ethics. My subtle suggestion that the fish should be released were ignored amongst the lubricated whooping and hollering.
We all make mistakes, but what separates us is the ability to learn from them. Am I wrong?

GutHookd
01-21-2009, 10:44 AM
Right and wrong are on the same spectrum, just opposite sides.

It's hard to fault someone for those practices when they are not illegal. All you can do is what you think is closer to right..and occasionally whoop someone's @$$ I suppose. *[smiley=evil.gif]

dirty3hirties
01-21-2009, 11:06 AM
I hear ya' but unfortunately, there's nothing "wrong" with what they were doing....in so much as what you described.

It's a toughy and you really wish people would understand and do the "right" thing, but you risk coming off snobby and nosy.

I really think that most people just don't know....they figure they're into a great bite and times like those are fun and few and far between. Plus the fact that there's so much indifference. People's mentality is that if they don't do it, someone else will....might as well "get mine". ;) Things would be a lot better if people practiced selflessness instead of selfishness.

I hardly keep any fish....just because my enjoyment is the act of catching them.....not killing and eating them. I'll keep fish every now and then to eat and only give them to friends when I know they would enjoy it. Granted most of the trout I catch are planters so i'm indirectly paying for them anyways. Wild trout or any wild species are completely different. I bass fish as well and I NEVER keep any....no matter what. Just not worth it to me.

CHICKFISHING58
01-21-2009, 11:20 AM
I see this a lot at Pyramid guy's fishing to deep bringing the fish up and then they let it go because itís not big enough and a few minutes later the birds get the fish.

It's not illegal but I have learned from reading Doc's post what can happen so I don't do it. I personally have fished down deep once this year and I felt so bad that I couldnít do it again. I do have to say I brought up a beautiful 23.5 inch fish but it just didnít feel right for me thatís just my opinion

That could also be why I'm not bringing in the big fish but I will wait till they come up to about 35 ft ;)

johnbfishin
01-21-2009, 11:51 AM
*We all make mistakes, and I am guilty of harvesting a few of these monsters in the past, not realizing the possible adverse impact.

I think many of us here can say the same. For me, as a kid I wasn't taught the benefits of fishing with conservation in mind, it was a "fill the bag while you can" mentality, no doubt about it. It wasn't until my early thirties that I started looking at things differently. I am proud to say this was about the time I started teaching my daughter about fishing and the outdoors, so she learned about these issues from the start and it has stuck with her.

I think a lot of it is due to education, or lack of education and in part it's the evolution of a fisherman. Years from those same three guys may get a different perspective on things and start advocating for the benefit of the fish, at least we can hope so anyway.

dinos marine
01-21-2009, 02:11 PM
i agree with releasing fish. if the fish are on a spawn, or wold strains, they should be released to be enjoyed another day. with large fish being so few to come by, it doesnt make sense to keep them.
the flip side of the coin is the fresh plants. its pretty obvious when the tails and fins are planters. the survival rate is pretty low for the planters.
for the table i fish amador and dont feel bad about keeping my catch. the fish taste great, and with 100k pounds a year going into the pond, my guess is its ok.
smoked trout does really taste great!
when we fish the rivers, all my fish are returned. i will only use barbless hooks when fishing rivers to allow easy releases.
it only pains my heart when i watch morons who spear and irritate the fish in the rivers, and then snag em. you would be surprised how often this occurs.
my 2 cents
dino

Globetrouter
01-21-2009, 03:39 PM
My dad and I still butt heads on this one. He will say "its big enough" or "keep it, its good eating". Then sends me home with the lot to cook them all or they get tossed out. Most are WILD Browns. Drives me nuts. It is what he did, his dad and his dads dad did. So I don't blame him. I toss them back when he is not looking. ;).

*I taught me buddy this "special" way to catch these fish and "secret" location and DROVE in to his head, keep it if you will eat it for sure! Other wise let it go. MY kids are learning this lesson too.

Thanks,


[smiley=fishing5.gif]

Bullet_Man
01-21-2009, 03:50 PM
Several years ago, I caught a beautiful 11.1 pound Rainbow here in Lake Camanche. I fought him carefully and when he was tired, brought him to the beach. I quickly un-hooked him, weighed him and released him. Several weeks later I read that a teenager had caught an 11.1 pound Rainbow from the lake. The marina had posted his picture and was that kid beeming. I bet he will never forget the day.

I don't know if it was "my" fish, I hope so, but that's why I Catch and Release.

Rich

tarbuckle
01-21-2009, 06:18 PM
keep it if you will eat it for sure! Other wise let it go. MY kids are learning this lesson too.

Thanks,


[smiley=fishing5.gif]

I've always lived by that rule when trout fishing. If it's not going to hit the frying pan that night it goes back. To many times when I was young I would throw fish away that had been in the freezer for over a year.

fishingfan
01-21-2009, 09:00 PM
i don't eat fish...

lucky for all them fish that i have caught that i don't! ;D :D ;)

ryanerb
01-21-2009, 10:44 PM
Flameout,

I totally am on your side. I would have been pretty depressed after seeing that. I'm not even happy HEARING about it. I C&R all the time, keeping maybe a fish or two every two or three years. I feel like fishing is really divided, there are those of us conscience of conservation, and have ethics, and then those who are just out there to drink beer, and fling a few fish onto the shore. Sure, they aren't doing anything illegal, but it's definitely not my style, and not a admirable style at that. Save the natty light for the backyard, enjoy and respect the outdoors when you're fishin!

Darin
01-21-2009, 11:15 PM
Five years ago I moved into the Mountains, and the 30 years previous to that I would keep whatever I caught. Thatís how my Dad did it and his Dad and so on. At that time 99% of my fishing was saltwater. I look back at how many fish me and the crew kept throughout the years and itís no wonder to me why the Ocean has dried up like it has. When I moved and started fishing wild trout it was a whole new ballpark. I fished for hours/days without catching anything. So I started to study wild trout and there behavior. I was amazed at what these fish go through to survive and how the population of these fish has declined so drastically in the past 50 years. Slowly but surely we have watched our trout fishery become depleted and some cases completly lost the species. Luckily there are organizations that help the cause. I think the bottom line is that most people are just completely uneducated about how important C&R is and the proper handling techniques of Wild Trout. I make it a point that every person I see fishing the rivers that I do know exactly what is at risk if they keep these wild fish. Most of the time they are clueless about them even being wild trout. But seem to appreciate the info that I give them. Nowadays if I see someone keep a wild trout in the rivers I fishÖyou will see the side of me that can be not very nice. So I think more education would be a good start. I also think they need to post signs that the fish they are fishing for are wild and are not planted. I know some rivers have them but mine donít. Iím working on that now.

FFG

fishable_waters
01-22-2009, 12:04 AM
Five years ago I moved into the Mountains, and the 30 years previous to that I would keep whatever I caught. Thatís how my Dad did it and his Dad and so on. At that time 99% of my fishing was saltwater. I look back at how many fish me and the crew kept throughout the years and itís no wonder to me why the Ocean has dried up like it has. When I moved and started fishing wild trout it was a whole new ballpark. I fished for hours/days without catching anything. So I started to study wild trout and there behavior. I was amazed at what these fish go through to survive and how the population of these fish has declined so drastically in the past 50 years. Slowly but surely we have watched our trout fishery become depleted and some cases completly lost the species. Luckily there are organizations that help the cause. I think the bottom line is that most people are just completely uneducated about how important C&R is and the proper handling techniques of Wild Trout. I make it a point that every person I see fishing the rivers that I do know exactly what is at risk if they keep these wild fish. Most of the time they are clueless about them even being wild trout. But seem to appreciate the info that I give them. Nowadays if *I see someone keep a wild trout in the rivers I fishÖyou will see the side of me that can be not very nice. So I think more education would be a good start. I also think they need to post signs that the fish they are fishing for are wild and are not planted. I know some rivers have them but mine donít. Iím working on that now.

FFG



please do make signs! but like most californiains they might not care, and they'll drive off in thier hummers with wild trout.

Darin
01-22-2009, 01:07 AM
Five years ago I moved into the Mountains, and the 30 years previous to that I would keep whatever I caught. Thatís how my Dad did it and his Dad and so on. At that time 99% of my fishing was saltwater. I look back at how many fish me and the crew kept throughout the years and itís no wonder to me why the Ocean has dried up like it has. When I moved and started fishing wild trout it was a whole new ballpark. I fished for hours/days without catching anything. So I started to study wild trout and there behavior. I was amazed at what these fish go through to survive and how the population of these fish has declined so drastically in the past 50 years. Slowly but surely we have watched our trout fishery become depleted and some cases completly lost the species. Luckily there are organizations that help the cause. I think the bottom line is that most people are just completely uneducated about how important C&R is and the proper handling techniques of Wild Trout. I make it a point that every person I see fishing the rivers that I do know exactly what is at risk if they keep these wild fish. Most of the time they are clueless about them even being wild trout. But seem to appreciate the info that I give them. Nowadays if *I see someone keep a wild trout in the rivers I fishÖyou will see the side of me that can be not very nice. So I think more education would be a good start. I also think they need to post signs that the fish they are fishing for are wild and are not planted. I know some rivers have them but mine donít. Iím working on that now.

FFG



please do make signs! but like most californiains they might not care, and they'll drive off in thier hummers with wild trout.

Not if I'm there, and I'm there allot. 8-) I wish DFG would make all wild trout rivers C&R all year round. That would solve some of the problum. And if they did that there might be a slight chance that further generations will still have fish to catch. As far as the "Hummers with wild trout" There will always be some Jack*** that doesn't care, but posting good info coulndn't hurt, only help.

hellbent
01-22-2009, 05:11 AM
About 20 years ago my buddies and i were moving, when i cleaned out the freezer there were about 30 planters in there I had to throw away. *That changed my perspective, and since i have caught and released 90% of the fish I catch- mainly because i Just don't like fish!

What you witnessed is hard to watch and have seen it many times...but that is why Amador is so popular- a chance at a decent fish, planted or not it gets people going. *I was also at a high mountain lake watching that a few years back and amazed at the size. *There were a few monsters dead on the bottom- so I netted one and weighed it...14lbs dead
I won't even bother those fish when they are in a state like that, I figure they earned their right to be there.

rc mckokanee
01-22-2009, 05:42 AM
the last post made sense to me, fish in spawning waters should be left alone. in fact maybe should be closed during this time the fish are spawning. i know no one likes the idea of closing a stream, but this is the only way to keep those who don't practise c&r from taking those fish.

GutHookd
01-22-2009, 08:51 AM
I agree with everything you guys have said, except the ragging on beer drinking. I've C&Rd darn near every fish I have ever caught, but I will tell you that I like to drink beer (half the time all I catch is a buzz). I don't think drinking beer is neccessarily connected to poor ethics and that whole "kill 'em all" mentality.

I also clean up any spot I find that has cans or trash, and I always take my trash home with me.

DazShooter
01-22-2009, 10:12 AM
Things to ponder.....

- Someone who really doesn't know the intricate details of landing and releasing trout can potentially kill way more fish in one day than a catch/keep angler can in multiple trips. There is some great info on these boards about proper fish handling.

- DFG can't "bite the hand that feeds them" regarding c/r only. If they don't have data supporting that a certain waterway population would crash without mandatory c/r, they will never change it. Wither we as hardcore fisherman like it or not, if you deter casual fisherman from waters, you will see decreases across the board with licenses, gear, dollars spent at local economies.

- Back to the orginal topic, keeping spawning fish isn't by far the most ethical thing to do at all. From the sounds of it, these characters probably didn't even realize what was going on. One could also say that even c/r fish while spawning would tend to interupt spawning.

fishguts
01-22-2009, 01:19 PM
Let me understand this. They were drinking Natural Light?

Dustriver
01-22-2009, 04:14 PM
Yeah, everybody does their own thing their own way. I hope that when things clear up, DFG-FPB stocks a little more at other places. It is tough to see those wild lunkers go bye bye, but it is what is. Feeling that bad about people who are not C&R is a tough pill to swallow. But I have friends who have contacted water districts and cities to donate additional planting of brood stock and what not. There are areas like Lake Solano/Putah creek that planting has ceased at, which is most regretful..... :-/

"But Natural Light is a lousy choice for beer..." ;D

FisherForLife
01-22-2009, 04:33 PM
Is anyone gonna bring up the fact that these people PAID for their right to catch and keep the fish? It's not like they're just going out and catching fish for free, there's licenses, and gear, and gas, and so on and so forth. Ya it'd be great to see more people releasing, i try to do it every chance i get (the only fish i eat is striper) but how can you go and get mad at people for doing what they paid for? I wanna see you go to a supermarket and buy a steak and then after you paid, go and put it back and leave. On the spawning issue, i guarantee you 999 out of 1000 people have no idea when a fish is spawning. They just think it's their lucky day. Without people fishing, and most people who fish keep what they catch, the economy would be a lot worse than it is. And you can forget about programs like fishing in the city and such.

crippled
01-22-2009, 05:38 PM
i agree they cant be faulted for what they did not know. they prob did not know what they where doing. and especially if its not illegal. they probably dont get to do that very much, hang out with buddies in nature, catch a buzz, and just enjoy there time together and what not. but they should have not even came anywhere near you especially if there is that much open water around you. now thats just rude.

Flameout
01-22-2009, 05:44 PM
My point in placing the original post was questioning whether or not it is right, because it is legal. An example that comes to mind is the current state of affairs with Bass Lake in Eastern Madera County. When I was a kid, my dad and countless others would fish the falls at the North end, under a restaurant that has since burned down. The fish were a mixture of rainbow and browns that were originally planted, but had become self sustaining. I have some old pictures somewhere showing these huge trout attempting the trip up the falls for the spawn, running the gauntlet of sport fisherman who had "paid" for the privilege of meeting the then 10 fish bag limit. The spawn at the falls is a phenomenon no longer taking place, presumably due to excessive fishing pressure.

Dustriver
01-23-2009, 05:11 PM
"As the population in the state keeps growing, as does the pressure on these spots...." More stocking? But where will the money come from? What was the restaurant next to the falls in Madera called? My great uncle who passed made a reference to a place where there was a restaurant next to falls from the 60's that was a hot spot where the trout pretty much dried up some years ago....

STRIPER_STEVE
01-24-2009, 08:54 AM
I have had the frustration placed upon me at times when I have fished with my wifes family. I have always tried to catch and release if they are not going to be eaten, but have been in the presence of catch and keep even though the trout is only 6-7 inches and has only a couple bite of meat on them. I mean we are fishing for 5-+6 days and they dont even try for more trout on the following days just catch there dinks and stop. These are mostly wild beatiful colored trout that I would rather have a photo of. ........

MattMan
01-25-2009, 12:15 AM
Five years ago I moved into the Mountains, and the 30 years previous to that I would keep whatever I caught. Thatís how my Dad did it and his Dad and so on. At that time 99% of my fishing was saltwater. I look back at how many fish me and the crew kept throughout the years and itís no wonder to me why the Ocean has dried up like it has. When I moved and started fishing wild trout it was a whole new ballpark. I fished for hours/days without catching anything. So I started to study wild trout and there behavior. I was amazed at what these fish go through to survive and how the population of these fish has declined so drastically in the past 50 years. Slowly but surely we have watched our trout fishery become depleted and some cases completly lost the species. Luckily there are organizations that help the cause. I think the bottom line is that most people are just completely uneducated about how important C&R is and the proper handling techniques of Wild Trout. I make it a point that every person I see fishing the rivers that I do know exactly what is at risk if they keep these wild fish. Most of the time they are clueless about them even being wild trout. But seem to appreciate the info that I give them. Nowadays if *I see someone keep a wild trout in the rivers I fishÖyou will see the side of me that can be not very nice. So I think more education would be a good start. I also think they need to post signs that the fish they are fishing for are wild and are not planted. I know some rivers have them but mine donít. Iím working on that now.

FFG


FFG, there's something about your statement in bold that bothers me. I release 99.9% of the trout I catch, most being wild trout. I can't remember the last time I kept a wild trout. Though certainly I reserve the right to keep any trout, wild or not, if it's legal to do so.

But if a fisherman chooses to keep a wild trout, and on that particular river it is legal to do so, then it seems to me that is his or her decision. Your words suggest not only anger but confrontation. Legal is legal. Right or wrong in this case is a personal choice. And as another poster suggested, they have paid the state for the privilege.

Though I agree with your ethics, I'm having a little problem with your possible actions.

Personally, if I were confronted on a river about my fishing practices by someone who was not affiliated with law enforcement, and of course I was fishing in a legal manner, I would have a definite problem with that. *

But let me be clear, I agree with your ethics.

JefffromLivermore
01-25-2009, 01:06 AM
When fishing the Antioch Pier I've seen people beat the crap out of stripers, step on them while yanking out the hook, and then toss them over the side. It's no wonder the striper population is crashing, that and water pollution/diversion.
I was reading a study on how keeping big ones cause the existing population to spawn earlier, younger, smaller, and less efficiently. What they said is you should keep the little guys and let the bigs one go to spawn and pass on the good genes. The exception here would be stripers that prey on steelhead or salmon smolts in the Feather and American Rivers.
Since I think most CA fish taste like mud or dog food I release almost everything I catch unless it's bleeding badly and take it home, cook it up, and choke it down.
The exception is rockfish and wild salmon when you can legally catch them.

Darin
01-25-2009, 01:39 AM
Five years ago I moved into the Mountains, and the 30 years previous to that I would keep whatever I caught. Thatís how my Dad did it and his Dad and so on. At that time 99% of my fishing was saltwater. I look back at how many fish me and the crew kept throughout the years and itís no wonder to me why the Ocean has dried up like it has. When I moved and started fishing wild trout it was a whole new ballpark. I fished for hours/days without catching anything. So I started to study wild trout and there behavior. I was amazed at what these fish go through to survive and how the population of these fish has declined so drastically in the past 50 years. Slowly but surely we have watched our trout fishery become depleted and some cases completly lost the species. Luckily there are organizations that help the cause. I think the bottom line is that most people are just completely uneducated about how important C&R is and the proper handling techniques of Wild Trout. I make it a point that every person I see fishing the rivers that I do know exactly what is at risk if they keep these wild fish. Most of the time they are clueless about them even being wild trout. But seem to appreciate the info that I give them. Nowadays if *I see someone keep a wild trout in the rivers I fishÖyou will see the side of me that can be not very nice. So I think more education would be a good start. I also think they need to post signs that the fish they are fishing for are wild and are not planted. I know some rivers have them but mine donít. Iím working on that now.

FFG


FFG, there's something about your statement in bold that bothers me. I release 99.9% of the trout I catch, most being wild trout. I can't remember the last time I kept a wild trout. Though certainly I reserve the right to keep any trout, wild or not, if it's legal to do so.

But if a fisherman chooses to keep a wild trout, and on that particular river it is legal to do so, then it seems to me that is his or her decision. Your words suggest not only anger but confrontation. Legal is legal. Right or wrong in this case is a personal choice. And as another poster suggested, they have paid the state for the privilege.

Though I agree with your ethics, I'm having a little problem with your possible actions.

Personally, if I were confronted on a river about my fishing practices by someone who was not affiliated with law enforcement, and of course I was fishing in a legal manner, I would have a definite problem with that. *

But let me be clear, I agree with your ethics.



Sorry to hear that you have a problem with my actions. I plan on fishing the wild rivers I do until the day I die and want my family, nieces, and nephews to be able to get the enjoyment that I do fishing the rivers I fish. Let me put it this way. If I see somebody keeping wild fish I try and first educate them on the river and what is at stake here. 99% of the time they are good people that are just uneducated about this one particular river (middle fork american my back yard), like I was when I first started fishing it. If they seem not give a sh** and tell me to f off like one group of guys did then yes I will get confrontational and it did come to blows once for me on this river and I will do it again and again and again if somebody doesn't respect me or the river. That same group of guys pulled a gun out at one point and could of shot me. If I die in doing what I think is right than so be it. I'm not trying to come across as some tuff guy. I am probably one of the nicest guys you will meet. But I will not back down to a situation that I strongly believe in, no matter what. And your right. At certain times of the year they can keep these fish. If I give my speel to someone that has a stringer full of wild spawing browns and they respect what I'm saying and walk off with the stringer and I see them again with another stringer like I have in the past, I know there is nothing I can do and I won't say a word. After I read my post back I should have said that after I give them the info about the river and they want to be confrontational about it they will see the side of me that will not be very nice. And yes it does anger me very much to see someone keep a wild trout when there are hundreds of other rivers, streams and lakes where you can keep planters. I will keep planters from time to time. I love to eat fish, hell sushi is my favorite food. But if your not starving then there is no reason to keep wild or native fish. Thatís just my opinion and I'm firm on what I believe in and what I have studied about wild fish. It won't affect us but it will future generations if we don't stop the taking of wild fish. Just look at the history books and you will see what our fisheries used to be compared to what they are now. There was no such thing as a skunk 60 years ago. I hope that clears it up.

You said "Personally, if I were confronted on a river about my fishing practices by someone who was not affiliated with law enforcement, and of course I was fishing in a legal manner, I would have a definite problem with that"

Why is that? There just mite be a chance that the someone that is confronting you just mite be trying to educate you. Would you still have a problem with that? Or do you know it all? And if you were fishing in a legal manner why would it matter if it was law enforcement that confronted you?
Anyway I'm out the door..time to go fishing

FFG

fat_fish
01-25-2009, 11:22 AM
My point in placing the original post was questioning whether or not it is right, because it is legal. *. *

i think it depends on your morals and fishing knowledge...i personally wouldn't be fishing for them in the first place (knowing that they are in spawn mode or in a vulnerable situation). i mean you showed them right where the fish are. that's the hardest part of fishing, so you can't blame them.

also, beer and fishing go hand in hand in my book, but i'm an alcoholic...lol. when i didn't have much money for alcohol i used to drink those nasty beers too. hopefully they have a smoker or half of their nasty fish will probably just go to waste.

ff

MattMan
01-25-2009, 03:01 PM
Posted by: Foresthill Fly Guy

Sorry to hear that you have a problem with my actions. I plan on fishing the wild rivers I do until the day I die and want my family, nieces, and nephews to be able to get the enjoyment that I do fishing the rivers I fish. Let me put it this way. If I see somebody keeping wild fish I try and first educate them on the river and what is at stake here. 99% of the time they are good people that are just uneducated about this one particular river (middle fork american my back yard), like I was when I first started fishing it. If they seem not give a sh** and tell me to f off like one group of guys did then yes I will get confrontational and it did come to blows once for me on this river and I will do it again and again and again if somebody doesn't respect me or the river. That same group of guys pulled a gun out at one point and could of shot me. If I die in doing what I think is right than so be it. I'm not trying to come across as some tuff guy. I am probably one of the nicest guys you will meet. But I will not back down to a situation that I strongly believe in, no matter what. And your right. At certain times of the year they can keep these fish. If I give my speel to someone that has a stringer full of wild spawing browns and they respect what I'm saying and walk off with the stringer and I see them again with another stringer like I have in the past, I know there is nothing I can do and I won't say a word. After I read my post back I should have said that after I give them the info about the river and they want to be confrontational about it they will see the side of me that will not be very nice. And yes it does anger me very much to see someone keep a wild trout when there are hundreds of other rivers, streams and lakes where you can keep planters. I will keep planters from time to time. I love to eat fish, hell sushi is my favorite food. But if your not starving then there is no reason to keep wild or native fish. Thatís just my opinion and I'm firm on what I believe in and what I have studied about wild fish. It won't affect us but it will future generations if we don't stop the taking of wild fish. Just look at the history books and you will see what our fisheries used to be compared to what they are now. There was no such thing as a skunk 60 years ago. I hope that clears it up.

You said "Personally, if I were confronted on a river about my fishing practices by someone who was not affiliated with law enforcement, and of course I was fishing in a legal manner, I would have a definite problem with that"

Why is that? There just mite be a chance that the someone that is confronting you just mite be trying to educate you. Would you still have a problem with that? Or do you know it all? And if you were fishing in a legal manner why would it matter if it was law enforcement that confronted you?
Anyway I'm out the door..time to go fishing

FFG
Let's keep this discussion on a polite mode.

You ask why I would have a problem with someone confronting me on a trout stream/river. If the person contronting me is a complete stranger then I have no idea what that person is cabable of, nor am I aware of their agenda. Furthermore, if I'm with my wife or young relatives my radar goes up evern higher. We don't live in a vacuum, we live in California.

Your quote, "Or do you know it all?" No, certainly not, but I don't feel the question was even necessary. You also ask why would it matter if it was law enforcement or not. Simple, law enforcement folk are familiar. Even if the person on hand is a stranger, the uniform and authority certainly are not. I most likely would trust the situation with little reservation.


If they seem not give a sh** and tell me to f off like one group of guys did then yes I will get confrontational and it did come to blows once for me on this river and I will do it again and again and again if somebody doesn't respect me or the river. That same group of guys pulled a gun out at one point and could of shot me.

I think your quote above just made my case. On this particular issue of keeping wild fish or not, there is no instance that I can come up with where violence is the viable answer. Especially gun play. The second after we discuss gun play we're forced to discuss killing someone. That's the nature of gun play. And I would make the argument that a wild fish, perhaps any wild fish, be it on the American River or not, is not worth the taking of a life.

One more point. People legally can expect a certain space of personal privacy, whether that be on a trout river or in the supermarket. Your views have a touch of "my way or the highway" to them. Legally, the fishermen you disagree with have as much right to the river as you do. This is slippery terrain at best.

I will say this, I admire your passion. And I think you have real big ones on you. For what it's worth, keep up the good fight and stay safe out there. I bet it would be a kick to fish with you some day.

fishwish
01-25-2009, 04:07 PM
Interesting about the legality of keeping wild fish. On the truckee and little truckee special regs sections there is a two fish limit during regular season. However, I sense a general attitude against keeping fish. Lots of folks feel VERY strongly about protecting a good wild fishery that's highly pressured and don't count on the state to have the right policies or even a good grasp of the situation. If I were a fish keeper, I'd be sneaky about it to avoid confrontation. Instead of strict c and r regs from dfg, there's angler peer pressure, sometimes to the point of air out of a tire. It's a microcosm out there with lots of unwritten etiquette and rules. It's a bummer that wild fish have become so few and fishermen so many, let's blame it on brad pitt and that dam river movie not to mention the lack of water and the poor management of river flows which puts everything else, even whitewater rafting, above river habitat. *

MattMan
01-25-2009, 09:03 PM
Interesting about the legality of keeping wild fish. On the truckee and little truckee special regs sections there is a two fish limit during regular season. However, I sense a general attitude against keeping fish. Lots of folks feel VERY strongly about protecting a good wild fishery that's highly pressured and don't count on the state to have the right policies or even a good grasp of the situation. If I were a fish keeper, I'd be sneaky about it to avoid confrontation. Instead of strict c and r regs from dfg, there's angler peer pressure, sometimes to the point of air out of a tire. It's a microcosm out there with lots of unwritten etiquette and rules. It's a bummer that wild fish have become so few and fishermen so many, let's blame it on brad pitt and that dam river movie not to mention the lack of water and the poor management of river flows which puts everything else, even whitewater rafting, above river habitat. *

Fishwish, I fish the East Walker, out of Bridgeport, quite often and the same attitudes exist there as on the Truckee. I believe the rule is a one fish limit, determined by size. I have never seen a fisherman keep a wild fish on this stretch of river. But I imagine he would get a few looks if he did. ;)

DazShooter
01-26-2009, 09:51 AM
If I thought a stretch of water I frequent had a population in danger of crashing, I would pick up the phone and give the DFG a call and talk to the area Biologist rather than trying to become a creel patrolman.

fisher5000
01-26-2009, 04:59 PM
Hey Forrest Hill Fly Guy,
Your response about your dad is on the mark! I have been practicing catch and release since the 80's on those waters that support wild fish. I used to get lot's of crap about it from those that I fished with so I stopped fishing with them. I pretty much stopped fishing with my dad at most of the places I fish because his generation, in my humble opinion, wouldn't know a conservation idea if it slapped them in the face. My dad grew up in Long beach and he was a diver. Iv'e seen many old photos of him as a young man with my grandfather and their buddies with rediculous, HUGE PILES of abalone, lobster, rock fish etc. I am concerned about whether my kids will have good places to fish so I do my part. I have a faviorite piece of water I have been fishing for around thirty years. All wild fish, the waters have not been planted since the thirties. I have kept two fish in all of those years, a 9lb rainbow and 11 lb brown that I had mounted. I stopped taking my dad there because he just doesn't get it and he is not interested in conservation. He wants to keep everything!!
Just my .02

fishwish
01-26-2009, 07:45 PM
If I thought a stretch of water I frequent had a population in danger of crashing, I would pick up the phone and give the DFG a call and talk to the area Biologist rather than trying to become a creel patrolman.
Many folks don't believe the state has the resources nor the desire to possibly deprive themselves of resources