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dirty3hirties
10-23-2006, 07:25 AM
Went to Amador Sunday with Troutboy and it was tough. Trolled most of the day with only 1 strike. Saw tons of fish schooling at the surface though and really close to shore (still in 30+ feet of water though). We saw some bankers using lures and getting strikes so we anchored up and set up some rods on bobbers and casted everything we had at them. You could see the schools come by and if you put your lure in front of them, you would most likely get a strike....and you could see them flash as they rolled on the lure. Pretty neat actually!! :)

Anyways, it seemed that was the pattern for the day...since the bobbers didn't generate as much action....you would land more though (2 for me on bobbers, 1 for TB but a ton of strikes on lures....none landed).

Anyways..that's it pretty much for the report BUT when we were done for the day, we ran into a person at the dock and he said that the trout are Steelhead/Rainbow hybrids.....not the normal Donaldson cutbows. He told us that they weren't able to get the Donaldson trouts this year....he didn't have any more details but I'm wondering if any other sniffers have heard the same. If this is true.....I'm thinking it's going to be a tougher year at Amador. :-[ Oh....the trout were beautiful too....and I had thought that they did look slightly different than I remembered. But I chalked that one up to having not fished Amador since late April. But after hearing this news, it makes sense now.

The_Big_Sinus
10-23-2006, 07:52 AM
First off, Donaldson strain Rainbows aren't cuttbows. They were engineered by University of Washington from Steelhead stock. Second, I don't believe there ever were any "cuttbows" in Amador... Yeah, I've seen the site and heard the story- I believe it is hogwash, not to put too fine a point on it.

All that said, the 'bows in Amador are large and in charge. They are usually orange on the inside and smoke up real nice.

mike22ca
10-23-2006, 09:09 AM
First off, Donaldson strain Rainbows aren't cuttbows. *They were engineered by University of Washington from Steelhead stock. *Second, I don't believe there ever were any "cuttbows" in Amador... *Yeah, I've seen the site and heard the story- I believe it is hogwash, not to put too fine a point on it.

All that said, the 'bows in Amador are large and in charge. *They are usually orange on the inside and smoke up real nice.

Yea they are actually very fatty and oily...excellent for smoking...taste just like salmon ;)

dirty3hirties
10-23-2006, 09:28 AM
Ah. I think people are using the word "cutbow" and the Donaldson trout interchangeably because we've all heard the term "Amador cutbows".

Obviously the person I talked to thought this as well. He said that they're not using Donaldson's anymore and are now using steelhead/rainbow hybrids.....which is the Donaldson trout. I guess the best thing is to confirm with amador.

Found some related links on the Donaldson strain:

http://www.washington.edu/research/pathbreakers/1932a.html

http://www.aquaseed.com/publications/e&s_donaldson.htm

anglinfool
10-23-2006, 09:29 AM
I think there is genuine confusion as to whether the Donaldson trout is a rainbow cross-bred with a steelhead or a cutthroat trout. I've read both scenarios. That's how the Amador cutbow came into being I think. But the Donaldson is a result of the rainbow/steelhead cross-breed.

The_Big_Sinus
10-23-2006, 03:38 PM
The confusion started because for while (I didn't find the story credible enough to keep the link around), the website for the Amador concessionaire had this "story" of the trout- claimed the eggs were from Sweden, dropped the Donaldson-strain line, and threw the "cutbow" word out there to swirl it all together into a real tall tale about how the trout that they grow came to be. *Better than Rudyard Kipling's "Just So Stories", really...

Here's what I think, it's only an opinion- the trout are a domestic strain, and probably either Pit River (resistant to a fungus common in hatchery fish in California) or Eagle Lake. *They could be Donaldson-strain fish- that is more believable than cutt-bow. *They may develop faint "cutthroat" markings- rainbows do that sometimes, and I've caught fish that were 100% 'bow with faint cutt markings. *I think they feed them like kings, which accounts for their color and size- there is a freeze dried mysis product on the market that would be readily available and vastly improve the quality of the fish.

I don't want to ruin anyone's fun, but the story as it WAS told by the Amador Lake concessionaire, anyway, is, well, "fishy".

NOTE: I checked the Amador site- www.lakeamador.com and they do not now claim any "cutbow" trout are stocked.

However, I am sure they spin whatever yarn is needed to get people excited. From the Sac Bee last October-

Justin Cardinale at the Lake Amador Store said their first major trout plant of the year went in Oct. 3, with 9,000 pounds of 3- to 4-pound cut-bows going in. http://fishing.about.com/b/a/211378.htm

Or various sport-fishing authors...

I was plying Lake Amador for its unique strain of cutbows on a crisp, late-winter morning. http://www.californiagameandfish.com/fishing/trout-fishing/CA_0306_02/


The trout, which the owners of the lake's concessionaire, the Lockhart family, have dubbed "cutbows," are a mixture of strains of rainbow, cutthroat and steelhead trout. http://www.fishsniffer.com/dbacher/012004amador.html

I'm not trying to say that anyone associated with fish or fishing would out and out LIE... ;) However, the interested parties (fishermen, concessionaire) seem to benefit from a certain level of ambiguity regarding the exact provenance of the trout in Amador.

SalmoClarki
10-23-2006, 03:46 PM
I picked up my book from chris shaffer on Norcal fishing and he said in the book the fish are 50% rainbow, 30%cutthroat and 20% silver salmon. The funny thing about that place is my biggest fish there are usually huge dfg holdovers. ;D Personally, i don't care what they are as long as they continue to be so much fun to catch :D

drstressor
10-23-2006, 03:49 PM
I've always been curious of the cuttbow designation. The pictures you guys have been posting over the last couple of years certainly don't look like cuttbows. The easiest way to tell a cuttbow from a pure rainbow is to note where the mouth starts relative to the eyes. If the rear of the jaw is behind the eye, it is likely a cuttbow. If the head is small and the jaw starts at the front of the eye, it is likely a rainbow. Look back at the posts from last year and you'll see that the fish appear to be rainbows. The orange throat slash is not diagnostic for cuttbows. Pure rainbows sometimes show this characteristic.

The_Big_Sinus
10-23-2006, 04:02 PM
Did you mean that the maxillary extends beyond the eye, doc? ;D;D

drstressor
10-23-2006, 04:10 PM
If I use words like maxillary, these guys give me grief! :'(

anglinfool
10-23-2006, 09:15 PM
That's funny stressor/sinus. You guys are very informative, do you mind me asking your training/backgrounds? PM works.

drstressor
10-23-2006, 09:51 PM
Doc = Biology professor
Sinus = Renaissance man ;)

45_Auto
10-23-2006, 10:45 PM
So, basically what we're catching is a strain of rainbow that may have been selectively bred to grow large and fast. Plus mature early. And/or it's a fish that's been basically overfed in the hatchery so as to grow big.

My guess would be, it's a little of both. With the selective breeding being the reason for the cutthroat coloration in the gill area. The original fish had the coloration, and the selective breeding re-enforced it. Though, there isn't as much of the original gene pool still available. Now, it's more from feeding then from genetics. Definitely easier, and probably cheaper that way.

Doc, didn't realize there were any multi hundred year old Italians running around.

YakMotor
10-23-2006, 11:36 PM
I enjoyed reading, for the first time, the Game & Fish article about Amador and re-reading Dan Bacher's great Fish Sniffer article ... THANKS for the links.

Here's a shot of some of this season's "cutbows." *And, a close-up of one from last year. *I'll let experts decide where measurement should start as I've never done well in discussions over inches.
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/7695/aceslimit101806475wey5.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/295/cuhognfishcu475wnx5.jpg

freon
10-24-2006, 06:32 AM
just out of curiousity, why doesnt someone just go in and ask Bob, he is the really old guy at the counter in the morning and he never has had a problem telling me anything about that place?
I will later on when I start hitting it again, if no one else does. that way, you will know for sure. I personally dont care, cuz they fight like crazy. what ever they are doing, I really like it :D

dirty3hirties
10-24-2006, 07:07 AM
I don't think anyone cares what the fish really are. I can appreciate people that know the differences between trout species and can identify each through physical traits, etc, but the the reason why I posted this thread wasn't to discuss really whether or not the fish in Amador were Cut hybrids or not.....

Like most people, I think we were under the impression that they were cut hybrids so when I was told that Amador wasn't stocking the same hybrids as in the past (whether or not they were cutbows or whatever is really besides the point), I was just wondering if anyone had heard the same. Granted, what I heard was heresay, so I was looking to see if anyone could either confirm or deny what I heard. Of course I could just call Amador and get the facts directly, but that's what a forum board is for.....discussion. ;)

If these are the same fish as they've always had, then great! If not, I'm not really too worried either. The fish I saw on Sunday were beautiful, BIG and fought like crazy...that's all I care about ;)

drstressor
10-24-2006, 07:42 AM
It will be interesting to hear what they have to say about the fish they are growing. The source of the fish will be more informative than what they have been told they are buying. But as was stated, it really doesn't matter as long as people enjoy catching them.

The_Big_Sinus
10-24-2006, 08:45 AM
Nobody's disputing the quality of the fish, overall (although I wish there was less garbage by the damn for $20/day or whatever they charge).

I am guessing that there is exactly 0 change in what is being raised and stocked in the lake, and that the only difference is the story the concessionaire is telling these days... Do I really care? No.

My opinion: all of the trout in the photo posted by YakMotor are 100% rainbow- although I don't have the resources to do a genetic assay.

As for background- I am a banker. Aren't we supposed to know everything? ;D I did get a B.S. in Geology at one point- a little paleontology background helps when reading about animals (classifying them is taxonomy, if you want to get right down to it). I highly recommend Peterson's Guide to North American Freshwater Fishes to anyone who really wants to know what's swimming around in the water.

dirty3hirties
10-24-2006, 09:16 AM
I'm not a fish expert....not even close, but I did take science classes all the way through college and genetics courses as well. *Genetically speaking, physical traits in hybrids like coloration and other physical attributes do not do not necessarily appear making it harder to discern exactly what the genetic make up is. *For instance, if some of the trout are crossbred with another species, they don't all resemble each other even if their genetic makeup is the same. *Which can explain the varying differences in the appearance and color of the trout that come out of Amador. *

For instance...this doesn't look like a typical rainbow

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/2393/cutbowmo2.jpg

drstressor
10-24-2006, 11:09 AM
I have the resources to test these guys if someone wants to send me some dried scales.

It's true that hybrids are very difficult to distinguish based on appearance. *Even many of the morphometric parameters (gill arches, fin rays, etc.) overlap between the 2 closely related species. *I can usually get it right about 90% of the time from the size and shape of the head and jaw. *But I've seen "natural" cuttbows and bowcutts that looked either like perfect rainbows or cutthroats.

I have a test for the maternal mitochondrial genome which should be rainbow in a cuttbow and cutthroat in a bowcutt. *Plus, Mary Peacock has several microsattelite loci where there is no size overlap between the *cutthroat and rainbow DNA sequences. *In a true cuttbow, *both types of loci should be present. *This is the best available diagnostic if anyone really cares to know the real answer to this question.

The last picture does look like it might be a cuttbow. *The others look like rainbows.

AllFishNoWork
10-24-2006, 11:22 AM
I am guessing that there is exactly 0 change in what is being raised and stocked in the lake, and that the only difference is the story

Although I am no expert and only caught a few Amador fish last year I do believe they made a change in fish raised from 2004 to 2005.

dirty3hirties
10-24-2006, 11:24 AM
It's true that hybrids are very difficult to distinguish based on appearance. Even many of the morphometric parameters (gill arches, fin rays, etc.) overlap between the 2 closely related species. I can usually get it right about 90% of the time from the size and shape of the head and jaw. I've seen "natural" cuttbows and bowcutts that looked like almost perfect rainbows or cutthroats.

But I have a test for the maternal mitochondrial genome which should be rainbow in a cuttbow and cutthroat in a bowcutt. Plus, there are several microsattelite loci where there is no size overlap between the cutthroat and rainbow DNA sequences. In a true cuttbow, both types of loci should be present. This is the best available diagnostic if anyone really cares to know the real answer to this question.

The last picture does look like it might be a cuttbow. The others look like rainbows.

Whoa....I feel like I'm back in school...suddenly I'm having flashbacks of Mendel, my genetics classes and picturing pea pods ;) hahah.

Great info...fascinating stuff. That's maybe why people assumed the donaldson trout were all cutbows....from catching fish that resembled the one I posted. I know that I really like the look of those trout...usually redder with the larger head...slightly hooked jaw, reddish fins. Really pretty fish.

Thanks for the info. Maybe someone will take you up on your offer and send you some scale samples....would be really interesting to see the results.

robert_long
10-24-2006, 12:28 PM
Yes they are not cutbows anymore. It was simple, I called Bob at the lake
and they are stocking with a steelhead/rainbow trout. They have stocked
23,000 lbs to date. ;)


Robert

pontoon_crew
10-24-2006, 01:10 PM
Does anyone know the difference in their size,color,or fight?

fishinator
10-24-2006, 01:59 PM
Cutbow, rainbow, Gumbo- all I know is this will be my first year fishing Amador and I will take what ever fat fish come out of the lake. ;D
fishinator

AllFishNoWork
10-24-2006, 03:07 PM
Just be careful if you go after a DFG plant Fishinator, you'll be disappointed.

Trout_Shark
10-24-2006, 05:03 PM
Now I'm dissapointed, I'm afraid that the lures that worked well the last couple of years might not be the "best" producers this year. Finally when I thought I had it down to a science...They change the science :-/
Back to the drawing board.

drstressor
10-24-2006, 05:47 PM
I'm pretty sure that the fish you were catching last year were rainbows, so things shouldn't be any different.

Planted trout pretty much hit the same things no matter what their lineage might be. You guys seem to have it down to a science.

Rusty_Hooks
10-24-2006, 06:18 PM
Real interesting stuff...but

I think its about time for the powermouse thread to come back ;) ;D ;D

The_Big_Sinus
10-25-2006, 08:25 AM
I have never, not once, been skunked at Amador using a nightcrawler under a slip bobber off the dam... Usually, I've managed something on the order of 2 fish per rod per hour that way... I've seen the little DFG plants schooling with the bigger "home" stocked fish, but never caught them. Tough to go wrong at Amador.

When I can drive for another hour and 1/2 and get this, tho'... Well, I just don't seem to want to pay $20 to get down with the garbage (I suppose Silver will be frozen over soon enough, and then I won't have much choice).

http://www.myfishingpictures.com/watermark.php?file=500/4559Rainbow_SilverLake_9-4-06_2a-med.JPG

Vikings_Bane
10-25-2006, 10:04 AM
Just to add to the already existing confusion, I thought I would insert this link. Just to add to the already existing confusion, I thought I would insert this link. http://www.californiagameandfish.com/fishing/trout-fishing/CA_0306_02/

drstressor
10-25-2006, 11:15 AM
That's just more BS. I've never read that Donaldson strain rainbows ever contained any cutthroat genes. They were just crossed out with steelhead to develop a commercial strain that could be grown in either freshwater ponds or saltwater net pens. See the links above.

These fish are just like cows and sheep that were selectively bred to grow rapidly and to utilize food efficiently. I have eaten Donaldson strain fish grown in saltwater net pens and they were about the best eating fish I have ever tasted. They were so fatty that they were difficult to cook on an grill.

One of these days I'd like to fish Amador just to see if these guys actually fight as hard as you folks say they do. I've seen plenty of posts on these boards talking about how hard macs and Lahontan cutts fight (they don't), so I remain skeptical about the fighting abilities of Amador fish. Even Eagle Lake rainbows don't fight as hard as truly wild fish.

dirty3hirties
10-25-2006, 11:40 AM
One of these days I'd like to fish Amador just to see if these guys actually fight as hard as you folks say they do.

Wow....you definitely should. I can understand from a "purists" point of view why Amador is not well liked (high fees, no sport due to the amount of fish they stock ,etc.) but the fish fight like nothing I've caught (in fresh water). However, I have only caught wild river trout on the smallish side so I don't have something to compare it too. I do know that using my gear (UL 5 1/2 foot rods with 4 lb leader), the fish will absolutely man handle me....but that's the sport of it. They will do very impressive runs and crazy aerobatics....jumping 3,4,5 times even. And they really hammer your lures/bait. Really cool stuff.

I'm starting to think that the whole cutbow thing was just an urban legend. Seems like there may be a few fish with some cut genes in them, but that's it.

PianoFish
10-25-2006, 12:57 PM
Hey Dock OK this may be a stupid question but aren't steel heads just ocean going rainbows so how do you cross a rainbow with a Steelie if they are already the same fish :-/
40 years ago my dad and i would catch wild steelies in humbolt county and I don't belive I have ever had any fish fight harder but these Amador fish are great fighters and I think you really need to get down there and try them.

See you on the water
PianoFish

drstressor
10-25-2006, 02:37 PM
Steelhead are rainbows that have adapted to an anadromous life history. Regular stream dwelling strains of rainbows can't survive in saltwater since they can't undergo the smoltification process. During smoltification, changes occur in the gills and kidneys (and other organs) that allow the fish to retain water and to get rid of excess salt. Many strains of salmonids have the ability to undergo smoltification, but others have lost this ability. There is normally very little if any cross breeding between stream dwelling rainbows and migratory steelhead in the same watershed because they use different spawning areas and build redds at different times. But they are just different strains of the same species and viable hybrids can be easily produced artificially. I was recently a co-author on a paper that examined the degree of genetic differences between stream dwelling rainbows and steelhead in the same rivers. It turned out the the differences between the rainbows and steelhead in the same watershed were greater than between steelhead in other rivers. There is lots of genetic variation in salmonid populations since they have 4 copies of many genes instead of the usual 2 copies. Selective breeding or natural selection can rapidly result in the development of new strains with different characteristics. But they are all rainbow trout. Cutthroat trout are a different species with a different number of chromosomes and a different mitochondrial genotype. They are both much more closely related to Pacific salmon than they are to brown trout and Atlantic salmon.

sunracer1957
10-25-2006, 03:04 PM
Doc

I'm going to make an offer you can't refuse!!!

From the first day I joined the boards I've wanted to spend a day on the water with you, you know more about fish than I could ever dream of.

Heres my offer.

Anytime you and your wife would like to come down to fish Amador I will pick up the tab and if you want to spend the night I will put you up with dinner and all the fixings. My wife and I plus you and your wife will spend the day on Amador. Its a small lake and very calm nice to fish on. We could make it a weekday if you like, lots less boat traffic or whatever you prefer, just let me know. The lake is about a 40 min drive from the house...Tom

drstressor
10-25-2006, 03:14 PM
You have a deal Tom. *Except for the picking up the tab part.

We have trouble getting away during the week because of our jobs. *But just let me know when the bite is on. I get bored fishing Pyramid all winter. :o

sunracer1957
10-25-2006, 03:32 PM
Doc

Then its a deal. I'll keep you post on whats going on at the lake, well you can always tell just from the reports. You just let me know when you want to come and we'll do it.

We can talk about that solar while were at it. ;)

PS: sorry for the hijack now back to the thread

johnbfishin
10-25-2006, 03:37 PM
Pianofish....you just had to ask didn't ya. ;) ;D

That's a good read Doc....a good explanation is what you do best. 8-)

Laketroller
10-25-2006, 03:45 PM
But Doc's often long winded too! :P

drstressor
10-25-2006, 03:47 PM
Hi LT.

That short enough for you? ;)

Laketroller
10-25-2006, 05:49 PM
Hi Doc,

That'll do. ;)

AllFishNoWork
10-25-2006, 06:06 PM
Hi LT!


different mitochondrial genotype
That sounds illegal :o

Laketroller
10-25-2006, 06:58 PM
Hey AllFish, Long time. :)

fishinator
10-25-2006, 07:45 PM
well about those fish.. According to the Chicago Institue of BS These fish are from the unknown seaworld and have actually migrated from the ..... yatta yatta yatta... Sorry guys, to much reading for me. I say what ever the species lets just go fishing and slay'em! I am ready! Hopefully I will be taking a trip out the second week of Nov. Trying for a friday.. maybe less boats?

dirty3hirties
10-25-2006, 07:56 PM
Rodney


PS: sorry for the hijack now back to the thread

No worries ;) I appreciate drstressor's posts just as much as the next guy....really interesting stuff. I would have never read about these things w/o posting this thread so it's all good. :)

PianoFish
10-26-2006, 08:43 AM
Sorry to get Doc going but it sure was great info as always. I'm sitting at worK thinking up my next question ;) no really I'm thinking about when I can get out and get those Amador Trout.
PianoFish

bankerbull
10-26-2006, 08:51 PM
I have never, not once, been skunked at Amador using a nightcrawler under a slip bobber off the dam... *Usually, I've managed something on the order of 2 fish per rod per hour that way... *I've seen the little DFG plants schooling with the bigger "home" stocked fish, but never caught them. *Tough to go wrong at Amador.

When I can drive for another hour and 1/2 and get this, tho'... *Well, I just don't seem to want to pay $20 to get down with the garbage (I suppose Silver will be frozen over soon enough, and then I won't have much choice).

http://www.myfishingpictures.com/watermark.php?file=500/4559Rainbow_SilverLake_9-4-06_2a-med.JPG


Hey Big Sinus, what did ya catch that beauty on? Trolling? Silver Lake? Is that a rainbow or Cuttbow or whatever lol...Steve

troutfan
10-27-2006, 03:34 AM
That's just more BS. One of these days I'd like to fish Amador just to see if these guys actually fight as hard as you folks say they do. *I've seen plenty of posts on these boards talking about how hard macs and Lahontan cutts fight (they don't), so I remain skeptical about the fighting abilities of Amador fish. *Even Eagle Lake rainbows don't fight as hard as truly wild fish.
I have to agree about the Macs and Cutts. *They don't fight half as good as a Eagle or Bridgeport Rainbows. *I've caught Cutts *and Macs over ten at Pyramid and Tahoe and it's kind like walking the dog! ;) *I will be going down to Amador this year to see for myself how these fish fight.

The_Big_Sinus
10-27-2006, 02:02 PM
but the fish fight like nothing I've caught (in fresh water)

Please don't take this personally, but... I've caught steelhead to 14# and wild resident rainbows in AK that went 26"- 33"...

Amador trout (I've caught maybe 2 dozen in 6-8 sessions over the last 5 years there) don't even fight as hard as the holdover DFG planter that is shown in the picture at the bottom of p.2 in this thread, much less as hard as a steelie or a wild stream-resident rainbow of comparable size.

I don't want to dissuade the Doc- DON'T BELIEVE ME! The Amador fish are lots of fun. And, like most sizey trout, they offer a fine opportunity to land fairly large fish on light line.

It's more like I want those who fish Amador a lot, and pay a lot of fees to do it, to maybe spend a little bling getting into some real, wild, trout and see some new sites. For the record, to experience what I'm talking about, you don't have to go even as far as AK or the Olympic peninsula...

The Williamson River parallels US HWY 97 a short distance (it's on the way to Paulina, East and Wickiup lakes!) by a Rest Stop where you can park the rig. There are wild, stream resident 'bows going 5# and up that you can actually see in Cold Creek, which drains into the Williamson at the rest stop.

;)

The_Big_Sinus
10-27-2006, 02:11 PM
Hey Big Sinus, what did ya catch that beauty on? Trolling? Silver Lake? Is that a rainbow or Cuttbow or whatever lol...Steve

That fish was landed on 3.1# Tectan and a 1/4 oz. Copper/Perch Dardevle from shore. It taped at just over 26", I caught another at 24" 3 weeks later on a hammered gold Dardevle... Also from shore. Both were in the shallows.

That fish is, I believe 100% Pit-strain DFG plant rainbow- it just happened to be in the lake for a couple years after being planted. For some reason, when I went fishing this spring at ice out, I noticed that unlike most years, the rainbows, not the browns, were the healthier fish between the two... It's just lil' me, so I expect others have had different experiences there.

Once they get some shoulders on them, it doesn't matter, they are pretty big. But, when the water really cools off in the fall and after ice out in the spring, I have noticed that in a given lake, for a given year of plants, one of the two species seems to become more dominant, and the other becomes food for big fish, IMO. I think the "dominant" fish go on the following couple years and put on some serious size. Could also be coincidence and I'm seeing something that isn't there- I'm only one angler.

SuperDave
10-27-2006, 02:12 PM
I think one of the reasons the Amador fish get a fighting reputation is their tendancy to leave the water early and often in the fight. Eagle Lake fish fight hard and make a lot of runs but I haven't had a lot of them leave the water as often as Amador fish. I would just say it is a different style of fight.

The_Big_Sinus
10-27-2006, 02:20 PM
It turned out the the differences between the rainbows and steelhead in the same watershed were greater than between steelhead in other rivers. There is lots of genetic variation in salmonid populations since they have 4 copies of many genes instead of the usual 2 copies. Selective breeding or natural selection can rapidly result in the development of new strains with different characteristics.

Polytypic salmonidae... MMMM... Tasty and fun to catch... Mmmm...

The_Big_Sinus
10-27-2006, 02:36 PM
I think one of the reasons the Amador fish get a fighting reputation is their tendancy to leave the water early and often in the fight.

For me, "hard" fight means one thing- how much line does it peel off the reel and how long does that last?

For example, I've caught some decent-sized Northern Pike- they strike viciously and love to run back into the slop if they get the chance to break you off. BUT... If you can get them turned and get them close, then they are done. They are the Defensive Line of the fish world... Not designed to go the distance.

A big steelie will run on you... Saltwater fish, especially those bigger tropical ones (jacks, scombridae)- make any species of trout or salmon look pretty tame, IMO.

dirty3hirties
10-27-2006, 07:46 PM
Please don't take this personally, but...

I don't take it personally because it's the truth. I'm not wrong in saying that because I never said that they are the hardest fighting fish on the face of the earth. I'm talking about my experiences only and people can take it for what it's worth. It has nothing to do with your experiences or your opinions. If you think that some other fish fights harder, then great....wonderful. I'm glad you think so. I wasn't stating that to start a debate of whether or not I'm right or wrong. It's my own opinion based on my own experiences.....maybe it's limited but I never said that I am an expert, nor did I discount anything anyone else or you had said. You must not have read the whole message I posted either or just ignored it because this is what I really said.


but the fish fight like nothing I've caught (in fresh water). However, I have only caught wild river trout on the smallish side so I don't have something to compare it too.

I really have no idea why you even brought it up. I clearly qualify my opinion and that is the point of these message boards. People post their ideas, experiences, thoughts, etc for the benefit of other readers.

viper2
10-27-2006, 09:56 PM
All I know is the Amador fish are a lot of fun to catch and they taste good too! ;D

CraigV
10-28-2006, 02:43 AM
Amen Viper2! *when i first started fishing amador years ago, i was in an inflatable with trolling motor, and the first 5lber took me for a ride, nearly spooled me twice, had to chase on high speed, and spun me around in circles. A boat stopped just to watch the action. it struck my powerbait setup that i was too lazy to reel in, as i was setting up another pole. suprise suprise. i had a heck of a time trying to net that fish with a long leader, a 5ft light action and an 18" trout net by myself. *but one learns quickly and gets the gear one needs

and they do taste good.

the trout sure looked different years ago there for the most part..

but they are still fun as heck.

CraigV
10-28-2006, 03:01 AM
by the way, after reading robert long's post back on the 24th as he wanted to end the "what species" debate by calling the bossman and getting the info, it would make sense to me that the farm trout menu has changed. (corresponding with my comment about how the fish looked different a few years back).

but......whats the deal? i called friday afternoon (27th) and they told me the plant was at 18000 lbs as of friday, with the last plant on tuesday the 24th of 5000.....so is it 18000 or 23000 as of right now?

firetrout
10-28-2006, 11:07 AM
Well what great reading from all. *Information is always a plus. *As I learned about education and degrees received from college is that it is never wasted. ;)

I will be thinking about those things the next time I go to Amador and enjoy a great day fishing with my kids and pass the info to them in helping them develope their own interest in the differences in fish.

Dr. Stressor. *You keep an eye on the post and do try to make it over to Amador. *Fun fighters, ask Freon or Hoghunter3. *They don't BS the facts. *

The fish are good eating and smokers are great.

Will be there in about 2 weeks. :)

BobM
10-28-2006, 08:02 PM
:-?Doc, if steelhead and rainbows spawn at different time how do you crossbreed them?

fenton_chris
10-28-2006, 08:57 PM
*They are both much more closely related to Pacific salmon than they are to brown trout and Atlantic salmon.


did u say brown trout? 8-) now theres a good fighting fish ;). im not much of a amador fan at all, but i will say this, those planters do fight good. thats about the only good thing about the place, $$$, trash, tons of people, stupid trollers. you all keep going there ;), cuz i had my fav lake to myself today in the sierra and i did ok :P
heres a few
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2623/browniezh8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/4936/browmie2rt9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

johnbfishin
10-28-2006, 09:22 PM
A good day at Spaulding eh Chris? 8-)

fenton_chris
10-28-2006, 09:29 PM
gate is locked after tuesday, had to hit it 1 last time ;)

The_Big_Sinus
10-28-2006, 09:42 PM
I really have no idea why you even brought it up.

Lot's of us have fished Amador... You did take it personally... Too bad.

I am saying something more along the lines "If you think that's great, then maybe give THIS spot a try, while you are on the way to this other spot that has three lakes known for high quality fish."

That's why I brought it up.

Sorry.