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oceansprint
11-17-2004, 09:10 PM
Thanks again for sniffer's presence, wisdom and patience, and just for being out there and here for eveyone's benefit.

-Amen- *;)

There is quite a variety of rigs for sturgeon and everybody has their own way of set up, depending on bait and conditions. Some prefer mono 80# for leaders, some like wire, some make longer, and some put shorter. What are pros and cons of different set ups, and is it necessary for slider to be restricted on the leader?

Hope this discussion would not be an old issue as there is always some sort of new know-how 8)

2QUARTSLOW
11-17-2004, 09:26 PM
Not exactly what you need or want to know. But ill give it a shot.

Never used mono as a leader not even heavy mono.

I tie up my own rigs. Use 60# coated wire about 3 to 3 1/2 feet long. Some Single and some double 8/0 hooks, depending on type of baits using unless single hook for single bait and double for combo bait use. When going to fish in heavier current where a 16oz weight will be needed use 90# wire, and once in a while with put a 1oz egg sinker about 18" up from the hook to keep the bait down.

About the slider being restricted to the leader?

Isnt your slider sliding? What rig you using that keeps the line from sliding through the slide-o? Maybe Im just not reading it right, :-/.

That fatty I got last week tore up my coating on my wire leader real good. Had to make a new one because of it. Not sure mono would have held up, I just dont know.

Con about wire, it does kink, when that happen need to make a new one.

Just my .02.

2 quarts low with a boat load of fish

krzyfshrmn
11-17-2004, 09:33 PM
I'm sold on 80-100# test Power Pro for leaders. My theory: fish don't feel the heavyness and stiffness like with coated wire and will hold on to the bait longer. It's very limp and it's hecka tough. Hard to even cut with a knife. I like 18-24 inch leaders with 5/0 Owners.

But I assure you......I'm no pro

GCinGV
11-17-2004, 10:48 PM
I use about a 36” wire leader with the slider on the leader itself with a stop crimped 18” from the hook to be legal. Maybe this is what he meant by the slider being restricted on the leader.
GC

oceansprint
11-17-2004, 11:15 PM
Ok, pardon my "french" ::) - not a native english speaker. 8)

The slider must slide on a leader for 10'' of about 30'' full lengh on average, and it's not recommended to have it slide on the main line, right?

1 to 3 beads separating double hooks.

2 mono leaders with single hooks for roe & shad/herring combo.

Any other variations? ???

2Q, how do you lock the wire around the hooks or put a stopper on a wire?

Mr_T
11-18-2004, 06:53 AM
I snell a single 5/0 gami or owner hook to 80 lb maxima mono. Make it exactly 18.5 inches, as the regs say no weight closer than 18 inches from the bait. Got the idea from fishwiser, he seems to know what he's doing. As far as a slider, I use a cheapo on the main line, above the swivel that attaches to the leader. with power pro line, it will cut the slider if needed, and then it s a straight line to the fish. (if he's there)!

tankgrunt
11-18-2004, 06:57 AM
24" of 60# coated wire with 2 7/0 or 8/0 Owner hooks turned outward, seperated by 2 red beads. I had a problem of the leader getting line wrapped when I put the slider on the leader, so I've gone back to the slider on the mainline.

GC, the regulations about the distance between the sinker and the hook, and hook size, no longer apply to the Delta and lakes. F&G has the updates to the regs posted on their website. Thanks to 2Q for bringing that to my attention.

GCinGV
11-18-2004, 07:47 AM
Tank,
I heard a rumor about that change but didn’t know for sure. Thanks for the verification. That’s good news. I like to use Octopus hooks for sturgeon but one with a ¾ gap was pretty small. I was using 7/0 Octopus for the bay where there wasn’t any restrictions and 4/0 Siwash hooks for the delta because they’re about the largest hook I could find with a ¾ gap, but I don’t think they are as strong. Now I can use the same rig everywhere.
GC

tankgrunt
11-18-2004, 08:10 AM
GC, I guess F&G finally realized that the intent of the gear restrictions was to prevent snagging, 99.99% of which occurs in the rivers.

GCinGV
11-18-2004, 08:23 AM
It’s kind of nice for them to simplify things for a change. Doesn’t happen very often.
Gary

sunracer1957
11-18-2004, 11:15 AM
noticed most of you guys are doing your own rigs is there anything wrong with the pretied rigs from the bait stores?

tankgrunt
11-18-2004, 12:28 PM
The materials used to make the pre-assembled leaders tend to be of low quality. The cable has poor quality coating, the hooks will chip, bend and lose their sharpness, and the crimping sleeves have sharp edges. I also don't trust how well the sleeves are crimpled on bait shop rigs.

Like 2Q indicated in his post, the cable tends to wear out, but that part is cheap and easily replaced for about $1 of materials. I can re-use Owner hooks multiple times without loosing the point on the hook.

oceansprint
11-18-2004, 01:36 PM
Man.... :) this board and discusion makes me feel really wonderful, and it's the voices I can hear now in my head calling "Sturge-ON...sturge-ON"! ;D

Great info and thanks for everyone's input! Spending couple of bucks for a rig in the store isn't the best way to save for other BBB's, as someone already pointed out. ;)

My next question now is how do you make the rigs?
For example, if it's a wire, what's the way to lock the hooks or put a stopper, and if it's braided what kind of knots do you tie those with? (not the usual as for mono, right?) ???

tankgrunt
11-18-2004, 04:48 PM
Crimping sleeves are sold in the tackle shop right next to the cable. Make sure you get the proper size sleeve for the size cable being used. The same sleeves can be used for mid-leader stops. Find the most expensive bait shop leader you can find and build the leader the same way. With experience you will probably figure out modifications that suit your needs better, but it's a good place to start at. I used to use Channelock wire tools to crimp the sleeves, but I spent the $10 for a pair of crimpers made by Shimano.

2QUARTSLOW
11-18-2004, 06:19 PM
Every thing on the thread is great info.

For example my rigs: I only use one bead between the hooks. Ensure the hooks point in different directions. I also bring the wire leader through the sleave twice.

Hard to explain, so I will try. Put wire through sleave, then through first hook, then bead, then second hook, put through sleave, then bring it out the sleave and through the sleave again. That way thier is wrap on the outside of the sleave.

Reason: If I fail to crimp it tight enough. It will tighten around the sleave, instead of slipping out and losing the fish totally. Just a tip.

2 quarts low with a boat load of fish

tankgrunt
11-18-2004, 06:45 PM
ONLY ONE BEAD BETWEEN THE HOOKS *:o :o :o

And you call yourself a fisherman :P

2QUARTSLOW
11-18-2004, 06:58 PM
Tank, its a really large bead, bigger than a 1/4". The oval ones I tried just didnt work right. Any way :P. hahahaha. Oh yeah im using 12/0 Gami's now too. lol

2QTSLW

krzyfshrmn
11-18-2004, 06:58 PM
But guys, if ya just use Power Pro you just tie knots and put that extra sleave money towards bait. ;)

tankgrunt
11-18-2004, 06:59 PM
What's wrong with putting the extra money towards beer ???

Fish-on
11-18-2004, 07:00 PM
Do any of you have a good web site that will show you how to tie the double hook rig? How do you get the extra length for the second hook down below of do you start witht hat one and work your way up?

krzyfshrmn
11-18-2004, 07:02 PM
I quit drinkin'. Other wise it WOULD be for beer ;D ;D

2QUARTSLOW
11-18-2004, 07:02 PM
Krzy, make me a 3' leader, i'll try it out. Maybe it will change me, saving money could go towards more of that stuff that comes in bottles and made with barley. hahaha.

2 quarts low with a boat load of fish

Mr.Pescador
11-18-2004, 07:05 PM
Definately make your own leaders! Store bought ones have really bad hooks.The last one I bought was so dull I could see the flat , square tip! I use 60# wire,20-24"with quallity hooks.Buy the crimping pliers.They do a much better job and you only have to buy them once.It's worth the money to do it right.

krzyfshrmn
11-18-2004, 07:09 PM
Want me to mail it to ya 2Quarts or what ::) ;D

Sorry, no 12/0 hooks though. Think I've got some 7/0's though

2QUARTSLOW
11-18-2004, 07:14 PM
Nah, but next time we cross paths, I would like about 3 and a half feet of that leader material to give it a try though, if ya can spare some. What size of spool does it come it? And where to pick it up at. One more ?, are you using the 80# stuff?

2QTSLW

krzyfshrmn
11-18-2004, 08:03 PM
I'm using the 100# but I know 80 works fine. You can buy it for 25 cents a yard at Regs' in Freeport. Pretty cheap

2QUARTSLOW
11-18-2004, 08:08 PM
Thanks Krzy, will take a drive out for it in a couple. Have a good day tomarrow. Will be waiting for report. ;)]

2 quarts low

krzyfshrmn
11-18-2004, 08:11 PM
Change of plans, going out tomorrow night instead. That 100# Power Pro is SUPER thin. I just loaded up one of my reels with braid the other day, and the 40# Gorrila Braid is thicker than the 100#. Tough stuff

tankgrunt
11-18-2004, 08:22 PM
Good luck tomorrow night Eric. There should be a ripping ebb tide at zero dark thrity.

2QUARTSLOW
11-18-2004, 08:33 PM
http://groups.msn.com/FishWishersHomePage/fishingtackle.msnw

This is fishwishers website, got it from the members area, I hope this hyperlink works.

Its the best photo of a standard sturgeon rig I could find without taking a picture of one of mine.

2 quarts low

Fish-on
11-18-2004, 09:35 PM
thanks 2Q but I am still learning how to tie the knots...SOON SOON

krzyfshrmn
11-18-2004, 10:05 PM
Learn the improved clinch knot and that's all ya need. Works with mono and braid. With the braids, I always burn the tag end and it shrivels up into a little ball that would never slide through the knot ;)

oceansprint
11-18-2004, 11:26 PM
Makes a whole lot of sense now :)

"The rig must be enough for a dream... A primary target of oversized sturgeon" ;D

There should be a lot of stories out there about it, but for a scent, what's the best way to spice up the rig? ;)

tankgrunt
11-19-2004, 06:50 AM
I like a little lamprey eel scent on my bait. I order it online from Marie at Tillamook Bait

http://www.tillamookbait.com/form.html

Marie will usually get your order to you in 2 days.

Mr_T
11-19-2004, 09:11 AM
*Learn the improved clinch knot and that's all ya need. Works with mono and braid. With the braids, I always burn the tag end and it shrivels up into a little ball that would never slide through the knot ;)


Might want to use a palomar knot, all the braided stuff I have seen indicates clinch knots will slip, :o a palomar will not. This is from Berkeley and Power Pro.

pao
05-04-2008, 02:06 AM
What do you guys think about this

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OYNd0oDD114&feature=related

I will have to try the long leaders.

gomezfish
05-04-2008, 09:13 AM
he brings up an intresting point about the long leaders , my only problem with long leaders is that when you set the hook , the longer the leader , the less powerful hook set you probly get

Luke
05-04-2008, 05:46 PM
There is no stretch in the type of leader material he is using. That type of fishing style is new to me. But if you notice he is using a 2 pound ball and the current is so strong it takes it away from him every time he releases the thumb. I am pretty sure we don't have that type of current around here to contend with, BUT what the hell since we can use 2 rods why not try out a new technique with 1 rod and use the proven way on the other rod. I'll try it tomorrow.
Luke

pao
05-04-2008, 09:45 PM
Some of the guys that I fish with use long (4-5ft), 30lb steal leaders for Sacramento River and they still catch fish.

Bakkie
05-05-2008, 10:05 PM
I use 25# mono main line, with a snap swivel on the main line instead of a sinker slide (cause they break), with a 3-6 oz. pyramid weight (depending on current). Then I use a 3 way swivel with two 45# steel leaders, one about 36-42 inches and the other 18-24 inches each with a 7/0 gami.

BIG_ONE
05-07-2008, 01:40 PM
he brings up an intresting point about the long leaders , my only problem with long leaders is that when you set the hook , the longer the leader , the less powerful hook set you probly get

not exactly...the power will be just about the same as long as your leader doesn't stretch as much, but the longer the leader the better it'll be...these fish rolls like alligator just like how other people experienced it...so longer the leader, the less chance the sturg going to cut your main line ;)

gomezfish
05-07-2008, 07:32 PM
i crimp 18 inches from the hook for my slider anyways so the fish shouldnt get wrapped up in my main line anyways

BIG_ONE
05-09-2008, 01:49 PM
i crimp 18 inches from the hook for my slider anyways so the fish shouldnt get wrapped up in my main line anyways


lol it will...pretty rare but it will when its going to roll...is going to wrap the line around the body...so basically your going to be pulling the body instead of it from the mouth when it wraps itself around the leader...i usually keep my leader 30"+

Seon
05-10-2008, 05:46 AM
.... the regulations about the distance between the sinker and the hook, and hook size, no longer apply to the Delta and lakes. F&G has the updates to the regs posted on their website. Thanks to 2Q for bringing that to my attention.


I'm on dial-up and can't get DFG's to load. *So can the sinker be right against the hooks? Can someone "cut and paste" their verbage and post here?

BIG_ONE
05-10-2008, 02:28 PM
.... the regulations about the distance between the sinker and the hook, and hook size, no longer apply to the Delta and lakes. F&G has the updates to the regs posted on their website. Thanks to 2Q for bringing that to my attention.


I'm on dial-up and can't get DFG's to load. So can the sinker be right against the hooks? Can someone "cut and paste" their verbage and post here?


it can...but i believe it can't exceed over 1/2 oz...

goingfishing
05-13-2008, 08:22 PM
Great discussion on rigs...don't make the same mistake i did recently by tying my own wire rigs about 14 inches long before hitting the 65 pounder fire wire...Lost two big ones due to the razor sharp sturgeon plates cutting the line on a roll...now i am going back to the 3 ft versions

gomezfish
05-14-2008, 01:43 AM
make a 3 feet leader , just crimp a slider 18 inches from the hook?

DaHoSturgeon
05-19-2008, 09:17 PM
Sorry, I have been away for a while. but I have a question or two...

Why would you use wire leaders for sturgeon? They have no teeth and their main 'issue' with bait is not feeling 'comfortable' with it.

Your rig only has so much drag and putting a wire leader on the end seems to defeat the purpose, IMHO...

I fish in a very abrasive environment here on the Snake River in Idaho and use 130# dacron as my hook leader so it is comfortable to the fish and still has the strength to handle the problem at hand. I terminate the leader with a 45 or 50# snap ring so I can keep my main line intact and still feel good to the fish.

Just curious...

animal
05-20-2008, 08:52 PM
I would have no problem using Dacron, but i use a split leader a lot and I'm not sure how Dacron would work for that, seems like it would be to flimsy for split leader and get tangled alot , Iv always used steal leader but i always get the coated stuff

GSW_UNITED
05-20-2008, 09:49 PM
sorry guys....can u help me with this question...

i never trying for sturgeon fishing but i am thinking to do it in Rio vista this weekend...

1. How to hook the grass/ghost shrimp into your hook?
2. Is sturgeon bite still hot ?

rookie question??? :P

animal
05-20-2008, 10:34 PM
sorry guys....can u help me with this question...

i never trying for sturgeon fishing but i am thinking to do it in Rio vista this weekend...

1. How to hook the grass/ghost shrimp into your hook?
2. Is sturgeon bite still hot ?

rookie question??? :P

1 if your using grass alone you can get 2 or 3 on the hook -7 or -6 size then tie them with miracle thread
if your using a combo you stick the ghost on the hook tail first tie the tail above the shank eye to hold it up, then u can tie your grass rite the ghost shrimp wrap them on with the m t
2 as far as the bite its been pretty good but you never know till you try
the main thing to me is find them first with your fish finder then drop your bait get a good map of the delta&bay and check the spots that the map shows, thats a good start

hope that helps some my two cents

BIG_ONE
05-21-2008, 01:49 PM
Sorry, I have been away for a while. but I have a question or two...

Why would you use wire leaders for sturgeon? They have no teeth and their main 'issue' with bait is not feeling 'comfortable' with it.

Your rig only has so much drag and putting a wire leader on the end seems to defeat the purpose, IMHO...

I fish in a very abrasive environment here on the Snake River in Idaho and use 130# dacron as my hook leader so it is comfortable to the fish and still has the strength to handle the problem at hand. I terminate the leader with a 45 or 50# snap ring so I can keep my main line intact and still feel good to the fish.

Just curious...

true that, they got no teeth, but their diamond plate will cut your line no problem, this is when the wire leader comes in, i've heard stories of them cutting 80lbs and 100lbs mono leader :o

jpangie707
05-21-2008, 03:52 PM
Ey Big One I hear you one that one, I was on the Napa river earlier this year when I hooked into a dino that beached himself rolled like an alligator and cut my 130lb mono leader like nothing. Ever since then I went to 90lb coated wire leader 7x7 its nice and flimsey like mono but doesnt kink like the cheap bait shop wire leaders. I fish from the banks alot so when trying to cast out a distance sometimes my leader would wrap around my main line do you have that trouble with tossing out that dacron DaHoS?

GSW_UNITED
05-24-2008, 05:23 PM
hi...i am confused by the type of shrimp...

People always said grass/ghost shrimp is really good for dino but i am thinking how about we use other kind of shrimp that u can get in the seafood market (bigger size without head)...is that worked for dino???? :-/

BIG_ONE
05-24-2008, 10:44 PM
it will work, but natural works better, sturgy are kinda picky when comes to food, if its not what they naturally eat, they won't touch it, i bet many sturgy comes by sardines bait a lot and rarely touches it ;D

gomezfish
06-28-2008, 06:05 PM
in that case why doesnt anyone use clams?

BIG_ONE
06-29-2008, 03:11 PM
in that case why doesnt anyone use clams?

good question...the mess...and its very teenie tiny ;D ;D ;D

gomezfish
06-29-2008, 03:55 PM
cant be any messier then salmon roe

make a "clam ball" , get a bunch of clams and fill up some spawn netting

Dday
07-30-2008, 02:26 PM
i just crack a buch of em and make a ball with spawn netting shell's and all... shakers with em but no keeprs,,, yet

BIG_ONE
07-31-2008, 02:55 AM
and also about clams, people are just lazy to open the clam shells ( that includes me ) ;D
But im sure it'll work anytime, i found a lot of clam in sturgies tummy... ;)

STURGEONSTOMPER
08-01-2008, 04:26 PM
in that case why doesnt anyone use clams?

I use clams all the time, just not for fishin [smiley=naughty.gif]

gomezfish
08-18-2008, 08:12 PM
;D

Escape pod 99
10-29-2008, 11:40 AM
My wife is not happy with 2quarts now as I just spent 300 dollars at Cabele's buying sturgeon supplies that I didn't need a half hour ago.

Steelhead396
02-05-2009, 04:02 PM
A lot of good variations and suggestions. Short leaders, 18.5 - 1 Owner Kahl hook & 1/2oz weight between the hook and barrel swivel. Same rig on heavy 50-80lb mono. Yes you can crimp mono gently or tie a snell around a bait threader. once tight but not too much to damage the mono. Play with it a little thats what this is all about. Dacron and Power pro provide the same reliability. Some people beleive in the non conductive materials as some electrolisis issues. * I also have a ton of 65lb nylon coated, weighted 1/2oz or non weighted using two 6/0 Owner hooks. These are small and I can use a little bait a long way. Plus any small ghost shrimp will cover the hook and if you hook the shrimp right, will not kill it. Tip with a single grass with point of hook in the tail. *Lively large claws moving is a hit. Especially if they have egg laden sac's milking in the current. *I use a lot of dirrerent methods trying to dial them all in. Even a little "fish tickle" in the water can do big things.

imsroll450
03-15-2009, 08:13 PM
i know this thread is old but lets see if i got this right if you use wire leaders (like i have now) you use 2 hooks....and if you use power pro as a leader you only use 1 hook...

is the right?

because i was thinking of making some power pro leaders.

imsroll450
03-16-2009, 06:15 PM
anyone?

Chrismd21
03-16-2009, 06:35 PM
Also where can you buy those nicely shaped hooks for sturgy leaders? I've been to all the sport shops in Concord ( Big 5, Sport Chalet, and Sports Authority, Walmart, Kmart, and even Longs) and can't find any of those style hooks or for that matter the sleeves that one might use. I did make the mistake of trying my luck and buying some from Cabelas that looked like the ones i wanted. But without knowing the names and different types of hooks I got something way different than what I was looking for. So now they sit and collect dust.

Animator
03-16-2009, 10:19 PM
Also where can you buy those nicely shaped hooks for sturgy leaders? I've been to all the sport shops in Concord ( Big 5, Sport Chalet, and Sports Authority, Walmart, Kmart, and even Longs) and can't find any of those style hooks or for that matter the sleeves that one might use. I did make the mistake of trying my luck and buying some from Cabelas that looked like the ones i wanted. But without knowing the names and different types of hooks I got something way different than what I was looking for. So now they sit and collect dust.


They're called Kahle hooks, or K-hooks by some companies like Owner (http://www.ownerhooks.com/pages/products/hooks/specialtyhooks.htm)

I use Berkley's Sevalon coated cable and Berkley's sleeves. I get them at the Outdoor Pro Shop in Oakland but I've seen Malin brand wire and sleeves at the Bass Pro Shops in Manteca. I'm sure you can order some online.

STURIPER
03-17-2009, 07:09 PM
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j38/joeysbonita/3e96993d.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j38/joeysbonita/7539ffe5.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j38/joeysbonita/0dbe7322.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j38/joeysbonita/59924f3f.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j38/joeysbonita/4a100a2d.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j38/joeysbonita/5c88f043.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j38/joeysbonita/821e094c.jpg

MontanaN8V
03-17-2009, 11:39 PM
I thought I had the ticket figured out. I took heavy mono, and tied on a small, stout hook, and a slider above it. The hooks could be hidden in the ghost shrimp, and a couple thread wraps, and just wait for them to eat it and then hook themselves. I got 15 cat fish.

gomezfish
03-18-2009, 07:20 PM
got enough beads sturiper? :D JP

what kind of line do u use? i have trouble doing snell knots with those heavier lines , now i just crimp um , it seems to work im only worried im weakining the line at the crimp doing that , im done with steel leaders

STURIPER
03-18-2009, 07:41 PM
All my leaders are tied with 5/0 - 8/0 hooks and 80-100 lb Seaguar, P-line and Jinkai...

fuenstock
03-18-2009, 09:28 PM
Nice looking leaders. Its a pain to snell those hooks with 80lb mono!

dbass
03-19-2009, 06:14 AM
Sturiper,
Do you dive down yourself and hang that around the sturgie's neck. That's preety ;D

STURIPER
03-20-2009, 09:43 AM
Sturiper,
Do you dive down yourself and hang that around the sturgie's neck. That's *preety *;D
Yep! :D :D :D