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View Full Version : Beach closings,we better ban together



Double_D
08-02-2005, 07:03 AM
For all of you that like to fish at night, Linda Mar and Rockaway(and yes I am spot naming) and any other beach in Pacifica, they passed a law that we can't loiter at night on any Beach and that means us fishermen, we all need to band together and fight this, we have been TAKING from the beaches for a long time, it is time to give back, and take back our right to fish at night, so far it is STRIPER'S ON LINE is starting the movement and COASTSIDE is starting, WE! need to be more active Dimpala and my self are the only one here on this board to do anything
via e-mail, that is a start just e-mail the city manager tell him why they should turn this new law, I'm not a political activist but the beach closing affects what I like to do so I will get involved...anyone else..your being called out!

Double_D
08-02-2005, 07:06 AM
I'm sorry ,there are a few other people on the board that are doing something about this, and I will post there names.....and they are members we don't here to much from.
so get involved this affects you!

PlugROCKSTAR
08-02-2005, 07:08 AM
i did send an e-mail to the contact that was provided by someone here on this board.

PlugROCKSTAR
08-02-2005, 07:16 AM
It's good because it will keep the harvesters/poachers away. But it's really bad for us honest fisherman >:(

Double_D
08-02-2005, 07:23 AM
Dimpala can you post up on this thread the info to e-mail and phone numbers, I don't know how, keep it on the striper thread but also post it here...thank you

SturgeonVirgin
08-02-2005, 07:25 AM
i did send an e-mail to the contact that was provided by someone here on this board.



Post a link and I think you will get more response.

SturgeonVirgin
08-02-2005, 07:30 AM
FYI just pulled this off the state constitution site.

Pretyt clear on the right to fish.

The original ordinance is I believe, for loitering, which is not the case in fishing. Seems there should be some standing for a reversal on this.

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS


Section 25. The people shall have the right to fish upon and from
the public lands of the State and in the waters thereof, excepting
upon lands set aside for fish hatcheries, and no land owned by the
State shall ever be sold or transferred without reserving in the
people the absolute right to fish thereupon; and no law shall ever be
passed making it a crime for the people to enter upon the public
lands within this State for the purpose of fishing in any water
containing fish that have been planted therein by the State;
provided, that the legislature may by statute, provide for the season
when and the conditions under which the different species of fish
may be taken.

PlugROCKSTAR
08-02-2005, 07:32 AM
Pacifica Parks, Beaches & Recreation Commission
170 Santa Maria Avenue
Pacifica, CA 94044
meets in City Council Chambers 2nd Wed of each month
212 Beach Boulevard
Pacifica, CA 94044
650-738-7381
Counter Hours: 8:30 AM to 5 PM Mon, Tue, and Thu
8:30 AM to 7:30 PM Wed, 8:30 AM to 1:30 PM Fri

Current Council Members

Peter "Pete" DeJarnatt
Term length: 4 Years
Next election: 11/4/2008

Sue Digre
Term length: 4 Years
Next election: 11/7/2006

Calvin "Cal" Hinton
Term length: 4 Years
Next election: 11/4/2008

Julie Lancelle
2005 Mayor
Term length: 4 Years
Next election: 11/7/2006

James M. "Jim" Vreeland, Jr
Term length: 4 Years
Next election: 11/7/2006

City Manager
cmoffice@ci.pacifica.ca.us

tomaurand
08-02-2005, 07:49 AM
I have already written and mailed letters to the contacts that Mooks started on the SOL board. Attached is the link to the thread started on Sniffer for those that want to put thier money were there mouth is and fight for thier right to fish.

http://www.fishsniffer.com/cgi-bin/forumsyabb/YaBB.pl?board=striper_salt;action=display;num=1122 681283

h00kie
08-02-2005, 09:24 AM
This is definitely an issue that we should all fight. A letter to the city manager is a good start.

Would a petition letter for those other fishermen that do not have access to our site or the internet be appropriate. Has one been started and circulated amongst the group of fishermen at the beaches?

Double_D
08-02-2005, 09:41 AM
That is a very good idea h00kie, we should hammer them from all angle's...I'm glade that you are taking action...I knew you would. ;)

FishinFool408
08-02-2005, 09:50 AM
I've done my part in regards to sending an email. My next course of action will be to form a protest in front of city hall in Pacifica donned with my waders with fishing rod in hand. ;D Or better yet, maybe we should send some blood worms to the city manager? :D

dimpala95
08-02-2005, 10:02 AM
Here's a copy of one of my emails:

This is a follow up email for one that I sent last week. I have done some research and have come up with an article from the California Constitution, Article 1 Section 25. Here is a copy:

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS


Section 25. The people shall have the right to fish upon and from
the public lands of the State and in the waters thereof, excepting
upon lands set aside for fish hatcheries, and no land owned by the
State shall ever be sold or transferred without reserving in the
people the absolute right to fish thereupon; and no law shall ever be
passed making it a crime for the people to enter upon the public
lands within this State for the purpose of fishing in any water
containing fish that have been planted therein by the State;
provided, that the legislature may by statute, provide for the season
when and the conditions under which the different species of fish
may be taken.

Since your newly amended city ordinance:

Sec. 4-10.120. Loitering prohibited during certain hours.
Excepting beaches, no person shall enter, remain, stay or loiter in any
park, mini-park or park or mini-park adjacent parking areas or at any
recreation facility between the hours of 10:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. of
the following day or in any beach adjacent parking areas between the hours
of 10:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. of the following day.
Notwithstanding the above, no person shall enter, remain, stay or
loiter on Linda Mar Beach or Rockaway Beach during the following hours: during
standard time, as defined in California Government Code Section 6807-2,
from 7:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m.; and during daylight saving time, as
defined in California Government Code Section 6807-3, from 10:30 p.m. to 5:00 a.m.
(? 2, Ord. 692-C.S., eff. September 13, 2001, as amended by ? 2, Ord.
720-C.S., eff. December 22, 2004)

prohibits access to a public beach for the purpose of fishing. You have amended/adopted a law which is unconstitutional. If you say that it is not meant as an anti fishing ordinance then why have we/I been asked to leave the beach several times by the Pacifica Police Department under threat of citation or arrest?

I ask that you please look into this matter and bring it up at the next city council meeting. My voice is not the only one affected by this anti night fishing law. This matter needs to be addressed immediately as legitimate night fishermen are at risk of incarceration and or citation.

Your reply will be greatly appreciated,
Donald Leitao
dimpala95@thegrid.net

Double_D
08-02-2005, 10:09 AM
Right on Dimpala...you are the tip of the sword. ;)

FishinFool408
08-02-2005, 10:11 AM
Nice email Dimpala. My email just said "please allow me to fish at night or I'll cry! :'(" :P ;D jk

fishkiller
08-02-2005, 04:33 PM
8) ;DDimpala you should of kicked in the old number for hint but knowing you it all made a showing .So everyone keep a copy of the ca constitution in yer pocket and flashem at the pac police. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

PlugROCKSTAR
08-02-2005, 04:39 PM
Nice email Dimpala. *My email just said "please allow me to fish at night or I'll cry! :'(" :P ;D jk

your just the right person that would do something like that too :o ;D

dimpala95
08-02-2005, 06:45 PM
I've found that when dealing with governments, even city governments, it pays to include the actual sections or clauses that are being disputed. The less work they have to do the better your chances are for getting some action. Another thing is to not be really pushy or threatening. They just file your letter in the old round file.

Be firm but tactful and be courteous.

Blue4spd
08-02-2005, 09:23 PM
Being that I started all this stuff with the Fishermen Unwelcome in Pacifica, can I ask anyone with direct involvement in any of the bootings to go to the Coastside site and post a reply in the political forum "Loitering at Linda Mar and Rockaway Beaches" Mike Giraudo is asking for information from someone who was there.
This is a chance to get some support from an 11000 member club

MB_Kevin
08-02-2005, 09:54 PM
Ill do anything that will help. Most of the time I fish the beach is at night. *Ill send an E-mail and whatever else needs to be done let me know.
*If they take away my night fishing I will *:'( too

I will be arested too. ever try to get a drunken master baiter off the beach at night. :o

ghostfish_slayer
08-03-2005, 02:12 AM
it's not just pacifica.i know i was perfectly safe fishing on the beach here at night.before they harrased me and forced me to remove myself from a state park beach with threats of fines and being arrested.i told him i would leave no problem because i didn't want to spend my b-day in jail.then i tried to explain my rights as a citizen and fisherman to him and was told i have no rights in a state park.i laughed at him and told him to look up the constitution or our state rights and rights to navigable waterways as fishermen.he looked at me sideways then started to aproach me even closer. so i said bye i am going home now.as i was walking off he said have a safe night.i laughed again and i said i was.there were 6 state park rangers and trucks on this 1/2 mile stretch of beach.at 11:30 that night.

fbanaria
08-03-2005, 10:16 PM
Guys,

I did my part. Just sent an email to the City Manager requesting to amend the city ordinance, citing Dimpala95's concrete evidence of unconstitutionality.

Happy Fishing!

FBanaria

fbanaria
08-03-2005, 10:27 PM
Sent to Email Address: *cmoffice@ci.pacifica.ca.us, 08/03/05, 11:25PM

Dear City Manager,

I am herewith citing your city's unconsitutional ordinance which will practically prohibit us, persons fishing Pacifica's beaches, and patronizing Pacifica's businesses and establishments in the process:

Sec. 4-10.120. Loitering prohibited during certain hours.
Excepting beaches, no person shall enter, remain, stay or loiter in any
park, mini-park or park or mini-park adjacent parking areas or at any
recreation facility between the hours of 10:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. of *
the following day or in any beach adjacent parking areas between the hours *
of 10:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. of the following day.
Notwithstanding the above, no person shall enter, remain, stay or *
loiter on Linda Mar Beach or Rockaway Beach during the following hours: during
standard time, as defined in California Government Code Section 6807-2,
from 7:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m.; and during daylight saving time, as *
defined in California Government Code Section 6807-3, from 10:30 p.m. to 5:00 a.m.
(? 2, Ord. 692-C.S., eff. September 13, 2001, as amended by ? 2, Ord.
720-C.S., eff. December 22, 2004) *

I am likewise presenting you the constitutional provision granting us, the people of California, the "right," not privilege, to fish:

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION *
ARTICLE 1 *DECLARATION OF RIGHTS *
*
*
Section 25. *The people shall have the right to fish upon and from *
the public lands of the State and in the waters thereof, excepting *
upon lands set aside for fish hatcheries, and no land owned by the *
State shall ever be sold or transferred without reserving in the *
people the absolute right to fish thereupon; and no law shall ever be *
passed making it a crime for the people to enter upon the public *
lands within this State for the purpose of fishing in any water *
containing fish that have been planted therein by the State; *
provided, that the legislature may by statute, provide for the season *
when and the conditions under which the different species of fish *
may be taken. *

Clearly, your city ordinance is unconstitutional, and should exclude people fishing Pacifica's beaches.

I hope to hear from you soon regarding this matter. *Please call me if you have any questions.

I look forward to hear from you.

Sincerely,
Fernando Banaria
California Resident Fisherman

redneckpunk
08-04-2005, 01:19 AM
Be prepard to do your homework on this one guys. I had a friend who was cited for fishing along HWY 160, were it has been posted "no fishing". He took a copy of Article I Section 25 into court to fight the citation, only to have the judge tell him he had insufficient evidence that the species he was targeting was planted by the state, as outlined in Section 25:

"and no law shall ever be passed making it a crime for the people to enter upon the public lands within this State for the purpose of fishing in any water containing fish that have been planted therein by the State"

Since striped bass are non-native species to California and were brought here in the 1870's-1880's you have the law on your side. However, proving the original fish were part of a state sponsored plant or project may be more difficult. And although I am not a surf fisherman, I will draft my own copy of a letter to send to the city managers office in support of the cause.

Good Luck!

FishinFool408
08-04-2005, 07:06 AM
your just the right person that would do something like that too :o ;D

Exactly! I'll cry after being incarcerated for urinating on their doorstep for kicking me off the beach! :o ;D

ghostfish_slayer
08-04-2005, 12:14 PM
its not just the state bill of rights that gives us our righ to our waterfront.look up the public trust doctrine and the us constitution.navigable waterways..it is the law of man they are violating..

dimpala95
08-04-2005, 11:31 PM
Here is an email I sent to Cruz Bustamante the Lt. Governor and chair of the California State Lands Commission.

Dear sir,
I am writing this email because I have concerns regarding a recently amended Pacifica ordinance.

The ordinance:
Sec. 4-10.120. Loitering prohibited during certain hours.
Excepting beaches, no person shall enter, remain, stay or loiter in any park, mini-park or park or mini-park adjacent parking areas or at any recreation facility between the hours of 10:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. of the following day or in any beach adjacent parking areas between the hours of 10:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. of the following day. Notwithstanding the above, no person shall enter, remain, stay or loiter on Linda Mar Beach or Rockaway Beach during the following hours: during standard time, as defined in California Government Code Section 6807-2, from 7:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m.; and during daylight saving time, as defined in California Government Code Section 6807-3, from 10:30 p.m. to 5:00 a.m.
(? 2, Ord. 692-C.S., eff. September 13, 2001, as amended by ? 2, Ord. 720-C.S., eff. December 22, 2004)

As I understand the Public Trust Doctrine and the California Constitution, we(the people) have the right to fish from public State beaches anytime.

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS

Section 25. The people shall have the right to fish upon and from the public lands of the State and in the waters thereof, excepting upon lands set aside for fish hatcheries, and no land owned by the State shall ever be sold or transferred without reserving in the people the absolute right to fish thereupon; and no law shall ever be passed making it a crime for the people to enter upon the public
lands within this State for the purpose of fishing in any water containing fish that have been planted therein by the State; provided, that the legislature may by statute, provide for the season when and the conditions under which the different species of fish may be taken.

This newly amended ordinance goes against both of these and is therefore invalid. Since you are the chair of the California State Lands Commission, can you or the Commission do anything to repeal or amend this ordinance so that night fishermen may exercise their right to fish?

The Pacifica Police Department has recently started to enforce this ordinance. Night fishermen have been told to leave Linda Mar Beach or face citation and or arrest.

Your reply will be greatly appreciated,
Donald Leitao
A concerned night fisherman

dimpala95
08-04-2005, 11:32 PM
Here's a link to his contact page.

http://www.ltg.ca.gov/feedback/contact.asp

Scott_Thornley
08-07-2005, 06:23 AM
Does anyone know the case law on city boundaries, as it pertains to the shoreline? If there is an easement at the mean high tide line on private property, perhaps there might be something regarding where a city's jurisdiction ends as well?

Regards,
Scott

dimpala95
08-08-2005, 09:15 AM
I heard rumor on Saturday that one or a couple of the fishermen were told by a Lt. of the Pacifica PD that it was now ok to fish at night again. Apparently he said that the city does not want the drinking and other non fishing activities at night so this was a catch all/knee jerk reaction. He further stated that if they were called out or saw people with bon fires, they would be asked to leave and or cited and the fishermen would also be asked to leave. Once the people with the bon fires cleared the area we were welcome to go back to the beach and fish.

It still seems like the ordinance is going to stand in place but they are making concessions for fishermen. We should not have to be harassed and asked to leave just to apease the law breakers.

I think the ordinance still needs to be amended and more specific wording needs to be added so as to target the people who are causing all the trouble. It's certainly not the night fishermen.

catch-22
08-08-2005, 09:34 AM
...I agree the ordinance still needs some changing, but that rumor should'nt have been posted til after the season.It just closed it for everyone again. :-[ :-[ :-[

dimpala95
08-08-2005, 03:10 PM
Huh? Did you get kicked off the beach ????

dimpala95
08-10-2005, 10:51 AM
How many of you have gotten off your butts and written an opposition letter or email to the proper authorities? After all, this is an uncontitutional ordinance and it affects all fishermen, albeit night fishermen. It doesn't take much effort. After all, you can use my letters as your template. We need all the support we can muster. Do your part.

tomaurand
08-10-2005, 10:54 AM
I did along time ago when the subject was first posted on SOL. I have not had any response though. Has anyone had an offical reply?

Tom

h00kie
08-10-2005, 11:01 AM
No response here neither. Hope that everyone else continue to send e-mails cuz the squeeking wheel gets the oil.

dimpala95
08-10-2005, 11:06 AM
No responses from either the Pacifica City Manager or Cruz Bustamante.

FishinFool408
08-10-2005, 11:09 AM
Yeah, I better get some kind of reply or I'm gonna.... :-X

catch-22
08-11-2005, 09:58 AM
...Tom Stienstra the outdoor sportswriter for the S.F. Chronicle wrote a little about the Pacifica evening beach closures.He would be a powerful guy to have on the fishermans side. You can find it at sfgate/outdoors.com. Oh and Right On EUGENIO!

catch-22
08-11-2005, 10:06 AM
...oops! CORRECTION, it's sfgate.com/sports/outdoors