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ICE
08-18-2005, 11:58 AM
We have benn fishing out side the gate the past few times and done ok. We mooch all the time. When it comes to trolling what gear works best and what speed do the fish seem to like? What can we do to get a better bite mooching beside using just anchovies?

Collegebound
08-18-2005, 02:04 PM
When ur mooching. give your bait some action. move it up or down 5 feet every minute or so. I have a freiend who stomps on his bait before lowering it down, but i dont know if that works better. Hope this helps
mike

Collegebound
08-18-2005, 02:05 PM
There are also Salmon jigs out there for mooching. Diamond jigs, i think.

fearnofish
08-21-2005, 05:14 AM
Trolling works best for us at 2.3 to 2.8 MPH. We throw staright watermelon apex at them and do really good. FBR's also produce

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/327/sniffertest4yt.jpg

fearnofish

searay
08-21-2005, 05:44 AM
Try RSK's, red, clear, chartruese and green, my favorite. Some run them with flashers, but I've never done that well with them. Watermelon Apex also. Retie both of these with 30# (especilly Apexs). 2# balls or downriggers, stagger the depth on different poles to find the right depth, usually chatter on the radio will get you in the neighborhood. We troll between 2.5 and about 3.1. Hope this is some help.
Matt

Sea_Snake
08-21-2005, 08:01 AM
When mooching should I let em swallow the bait or should I be setting the hook when they bite? I have only been trolling this year and I want to try mooching.

blue_chrush
08-21-2005, 09:29 AM
mooching is great if your on bait balls and
later in the season if the fish go deep like now
where you have to go 250-300' down.....
cause unless you have 12-18lb balls going deeper
than 200' is tough.....
jigs like these work well...

http://store1.yimg.com/I/wfp_1856_58217089

and if trolling then there are so many favorites out
there...straight bait, FBRs, apexs, rotary baits, hoochies,
and the list goes on.....its all in what is working in your
area and what you have CONFINDENCE in....
some guys just never try anything new and stick with what
has gotten them fish in the past....
and trolling is all about the speed....
2.4-2.8 and commercial guys even go 3+ so you have
to fine the right one for your boat, and watch the
bait in the water, action is everthing....

Italianfish
08-21-2005, 01:28 PM
I just returned from BC and we used mooching reels. I was real skeptical at first and even looked for a Wal-Mart to buy a level wind. After the 2nd day, I was hooked on the mooching reel. Any comments?

IF

drstressor
08-21-2005, 07:16 PM
I posted my comments about mooching reels in response to your BC post on the Outer Limits forum.

They are the way to go for salmon. Folks down here don't know what they are missing.

blue_chrush
08-21-2005, 09:20 PM
Italianfish,
a good mooching reel should have a line counter
to make getting down to the right depth easier...
there are alot of level winds like the diawa firefox
or many others that are in the 60-80.00 range and
work great for mooching and other fishing too....

Collegebound
08-21-2005, 09:34 PM
When mooching should I let em swallow the bait or should I be setting the hook when they bite? I have only been trolling this year and I want to try mooching.


NEVER set the hook. when you see that you are getting bit, wait for a minute until the fish starts taking line away. then start reeling in. you never should set the hook or pump the rod. Do that and its byebye fish. Since you'll be using circle hooks (barbed hooks are illegal) the only way the fish gets hooked is if it swallows the bait. once you start reeling the hook hopefully will catch in the corner of the salmon's mouth

Mike

drstressor
08-22-2005, 07:17 AM
The thing that drives people crazy when mooching is watching the rod bounce. The instinct is to sett the hook. What happens is that salmon often take a stationary bait from below. Their momentum carries them upward before they start to swim away or go back down. The bounces you see are the sinker falling back down on the slack line. If you realize this, you will understand why you can't set the hook or start to reel until the rod bends firmly and the slack in the line is gone. With circle hooks, which were designed for commercial long lining, you have to let the fish hook itself as the line tightens up. Circle hooks have actually made mooching a lot easier. It doesn't make much difference whether a circle hook is barbed or not. They stick very well if they end up in the corner of the mouth as they are supposed to do.

nogimmies
08-22-2005, 08:55 AM
I use both methods and find mooching still my favorite when the bait balls are thick.
Circle hooks suck but the theory behind them is better for the fisheries.
IF you put a circle hook with the line attatched in your hand. Then let it drop through your hand toward the ground.
Now slowly pull up on the leader until it touches the back of your hand. Now close your hand into a loose fist. Gently pull the leader and hook thru your hand. As you keep pulling the point will eventually stick into the top part of your fist just as in a fishes mouth. If you try to set the hook or jerk on the line the hook usually pops out therefore you would also miss the fish.
Try it a few times but be careful not to stab yourself and if you do make sure the hook is barbless first before attempting. Just like fishing.
Do the same with an Octopus hook and your back side of your hand would be pierced--just like a gut hooked fish.
I troll using wm Apex, Rsk's FBR's, hoochie /flasher, combos in asst colors.
All seem to do the trick .I usually have 4 rods rigged with different setups for trolling so I do not have to retie once I'm Fishing. Just change lures or speed.
If I get a hit on a apex/lure slow the boat or throw into neutral and then restart after 4-8 seconds. This usually entices a strike. Worked this past weekend at Ft Bragg and have a 30 pounder to show for the technique.
The fish are here----Now go Whack em
nogimmies

CORN
08-22-2005, 10:24 AM
There is some excellent advice here. For mooching, sometimes it helps to add a little scent. If the bite is tough, use longer leaders and smaller line. Always go with good hooks. I like Owners, then Gammis.

For trolling, vary depths. Some say to boat in an S pattern to make the lures rise and drop... haven't tried it though. We troll at 2.5-3 mph. I think the charter boats go a little faster. But as they said, just see how the lures move as you drop it into the water. good luck!

marnilr
08-22-2005, 04:13 PM
I have been told that mooching is difficult unless there is virtually no swell. True? Opinions? I have only tried mooching once with no success but would like to give it another shot. Although, I was out rock fishing one day when something slammed the hell out of my bait as I was dropping it down. When I reeled it up it was a nice salmon... maybe that counts as mooching? ;)

Collegebound
08-22-2005, 05:40 PM
from my experiences that is true. i think that when the boat is bobbing up and down the depth of the bait is fluctuating so much that the salmon are either spooked or are unable to get a hold of the bait. Probably more likely spooked since when you are mooching your are imitating a baitfish so messed up it cant move. Mooching with high and frequent swells is also an ordeal for the fisherman thats for sure ;D. its much more peaceful though
Mike

zerbert
08-23-2005, 11:41 AM
hey i am kinda new to salmon fishing what is mooching?

Fishbutt21
08-23-2005, 07:55 PM
hey i am kinda new to salmon fishing what is mooching?

Mooching is the act of drifting with dead bait using just enough weight to hold the bait down at the correct depth the salmon are feeding 1-6 OZ works best for me.
flylining also works well if you can get live bait

blue_chrush
08-24-2005, 06:17 PM
mooching in crapy seas is easy.....
you still just sit there and watch the line
take off and wait and wait some more...
I bet you can count to 30 if not more befor we start reeling...
its killing you watching all the line go out...
but deep in his stomach is where you want it..... ;) :D

super sharp hooks, and snell the hook is best....
that way it can't roll out..
also most guys use a hook too small, I use a #5
and get the red ones...and then just rubber band it
or spiderline it to the body just behind the gills
so it looks like its bleeding....ooooooooo so deadly 8)

65whaler
08-24-2005, 06:38 PM
i got a chance to mooch this year for the first time. i love how low tech it is - basically a hook, some weight and some dead bait. plus, you get to feel the hook-up ... something us hard core trollers never get.

all of my hook-ups happened when i bounced my weight off the bottom (i was always in 40' or less) and slowly jigged it through the bait column. i never had a hookup when i left the poll in the holder to let the boat do the action.

i've tied my mooch hooks with about a five foot line. i'm wondering now if that might be too long since all the action will be lead by the barrel swivel.

CORN
08-24-2005, 07:08 PM
i got a chance to mooch this year for the first time. i love how low tech it is - basically a hook, some weight and some dead bait. plus, you get to feel the hook-up ... something us hard core trollers never get.

all of my hook-ups happened when i bounced my weight off the bottom (i was always in 40' or less) and slowly jigged it through the bait column. i never had a hookup when i left the poll in the holder to let the boat do the action.

i've tied my mooch hooks with about a five foot line. i'm wondering now if that might be too long since all the action will be lead by the barrel swivel.

I'm the opposite : I've always enjoyed mooching and have never tried trolling until this year. Didn't like smelling those 2-stroke fumes. In previous years, the bait and salmon have been close to shore in big numbers. This season... :-/ ... I've been forced to troll.

5 feet isn't too long. I always use longer leaders, like 6-7', 4/0-5/0 Owner hooks, and 15 or 17 lb fluoro or Maxima. Main line slightly heavier. My 2 mooching poles are rated 10-20 and 8-20 so it's a lot of fun.

65whaler
08-26-2005, 12:19 PM
when i drift for halibut, i always synch a sliding hook on the bait to make it spin. obviously you can't do that with the mooching regs. but i'm always unimpressed with it's action in the water. looks dead not injured. anyone have any thoughts as to why this method is so deadly?

Fishbutt21
08-26-2005, 02:44 PM
I have always thought that mooching worked on the same idea as CHUNK fishing for tuna where the fish kills bait fish as it swims thru a school of bait fish and then returns to eat the dead and wounded anchovies or sardines

65whaler
08-26-2005, 05:02 PM
wouldn't it be fun to mooch using one of those red and white bobbers you used as a kid to catch bluegill? ;D

Collegebound
08-27-2005, 09:54 AM
I've always wondered whether when you're mooching, if the bait is rigged with the tail up or tail down. Does it even make any difference?
Mike

pastorbob
08-27-2005, 10:07 AM
Do both here in Alaska. Some days one works better than the other. We don't have to use cicle hooks so jerking it out of it's mouth not such an issue. Have caught over 60 Silvers (Coho) from my boat this season - we are allowed 6 a day each where I fish. I keep the leaders between 3 & 4 feet to make it easier to net the fish. I troll more than mooch and prefer between 1.7 and 2 mph. Do some "S" trolling to see what speed is working. Mainly use just herring on a two hook slip mooching rig behind a 6 oz weight. No flashers or hoochies.

blue_chrush
08-30-2005, 07:57 PM
I've always wondered whether when you're mooching, if the bait is rigged with the tail up or tail down. Does it even make any difference?
Mike


I like tail up.....why ???
you can put the hook thur the head area and roll out
the side and then put 2 half hitches on the tail area..
that way it holds the line tight to the body and hides it.
and I use a large #5 cricle hook in red so it looks like
the chovie is bleeding where the hook comes out....

my feeling is the standard hooks for mooching are so
small and thats why its so hard to get the hook set..
so bigger is harder to spit out... ;)

65whaler
08-31-2005, 12:21 PM
setting up mooching rigs with the threading needle, i've learned it's a darn good thing i decided not to be a surgeon. no matter how carefull i am, by the time i get the loop through the tail i've made a mess of the bait. i'm thinking i may start cheating and use that spider line or rubber bands. red ones.

redherring
09-02-2005, 02:42 PM
Another great thing about mooching is that you can use really lite gear, I often will fish with my black bass equipment or even lighter. I once saw one of the deck hands on the huck finn use an ice rod w/plastic reel and I think like 6lb test bring in a 15lb salmon, the fish took the deck hand around the boat a few times but he managed to bring in the fish. The whole time the fish was just stripping line out and the reel sounded like it was going to explode the bythe way it was clicking. I have a couple of noodle rods that I have been eager to try out, unfortunately the mooch bite hasn't really been there this year yet.