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onelilcrazyazn
07-19-2010, 03:41 PM
i recently bought an ar15 .223 jux to shot around with but i was wondering if anybody noe if you can drop a deer, boar, or black bear with an ar15 .223

chrism
07-19-2010, 05:30 PM
You can drop a boar with an air pellet gun if you hit it right. But think about the ones that don't get hit right. It's your duty as a sportsman to track and finish injured wildlife even in thick cover.
If you want to go after a wounded boar or 700 lb. bear with a .223 in the manzanita scrubs at least have the common sense to carry a good Bowie knife as well (you know.......so you can put yourself out of your misery).

smithstation
07-19-2010, 09:25 PM
i recently bought an ar15 .223 jux to shot around with but i was wondering if anybody noe if you can drop a deer, boar, or black bear with an ar15 .223

To hunt any big game in CA you must use a 24 cal. bullet or larger to be legal. I have shot a lot of pigs with a 223 on a depradation permit. Its all about shot placement. Also, if it is a true AR type rifle there are supposed to be no sales or transfers of these type firearms in CA. Maybe edit the post that you own an AR, not that you just bought one. Keep in mind that you are also limited to a 5 round ( I believe) magazine while hunting big game. Good luck!!

I stand corrected, it is not in the regs so use your 223 if you feel confident with it but I wouldnt want to religh on a 55 or 62 gr bullet if a buck of a life-time walked out in front of me.

remington
07-20-2010, 09:37 AM
To hunt any big game in CA you must use a 24 cal. bullet or larger to be legal. I have shot a lot of pigs with a 223 on a depradation permit. Its all about shot placement. Also, if it is a true AR type rifle there are supposed to be no sales or transfers of these type firearms in CA. Maybe edit the post that you own an AR, not that you just bought one. Keep in mind that you are also limited to a 5 round ( I believe) magazine while hunting big game. Good luck!!


Are you sure you have to use a 24 cal. minimum in california? I looked up the regs on the dfg website and it said centerfire only but said nothing about the minumum size of the caliber. I have heard this before and i use a .243 for that reason but can never get a straight answer. Thanks

chrism
07-20-2010, 09:43 AM
That is what I always thought too, but I guess it could have changed and I can't find it. At any rate, I would say good ethical standards would keep most from hunting either Boar or Bear with a .223.

Here is a CA link to recommended caliber ethics for pig.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/pig/docs/pigguide.pdf

Salmon1
07-20-2010, 02:58 PM
Posted here is a quote from the DFG regs, the only one I could find regarding the topic at hand, that states that any centerfire, soft-nosed/expanding projectile is legal. Seeing that .223 is centerfire, it would be legal. However, shooting a pig or a bear with a .223 is not, IMO, adequate in view of the punch it takes to knock one of these critters down. A blacktail, with a good shot, would probably go right down, but take a chance on a bear or pig, I don't think so.

(a) Except for the provisions of subsections 353(b) through (h), Title 14, CCR, big game (as defined by Section 350, Title 14, CCR) may only be taken by rifles using centerfire cartridges with softnose or expanding projectiles; bow and arrow (see Section 354, Title 14, CCR, for archery equipment regulations); or wheellock, matchlock, flintlock or percussion type, including "in-line" muzzleloading rifles using black powder or equivalent black powder substitute, including pellets, with a single projectile loaded from the muzzle and at least .40 caliber in designation. For purposes of Section 353, a "projectile" is defined as any bullet, ball, sabot, slug, buckshot or other device which is expelled from a firearm through a barrel by force.

onelilcrazyazn
07-20-2010, 04:56 PM
its the semi version of the ar 15 CA legel and i dont care about out it running away wounded im not chasing after anything jux wanted to see wat my luck it with killing the pig and deer is on the spot

fishwishin
07-20-2010, 07:04 PM
its the semi version of the ar 15 CA legel and i dont care about out it running away wounded im not chasing after anything jux wanted to see wat my luck it with killing the pig and deer is on the spot
This is not at all an ethical mindset. The idea of hunting is to kill and harvest the animal, not shoot it and not be commited to making sure it is cleanly taken. Worse yet shooting it and placing a poor shot on it only to have it run away in an unknown condition without any effort to track it down. I urge you to rethink your approach to the sport or use the rifle as a target shooter or plinker.

I am not opposed to hunting at all, but I do fully support and adhere to clean hunting practices.

Fishbucket
07-20-2010, 07:18 PM
its the semi version of the ar 15 CA legel and i dont care about out it running away wounded im not chasing after anything jux wanted to see wat my luck it with killing the pig and deer is on the spot


the 223 is not a round to hunt with. You should choose something larger. It just does not have the knock down power... especially pig or bear. You might as well swat at it with a stick and gain the same results.

smithstation
07-20-2010, 09:21 PM
I looked for the regulations on bullet size and couldnt find it..... I could be wrong but I am sure I saw it somewhere in the past, things could have changed.....

Fishwishin, I agree 100% with you.

GUSANO
07-21-2010, 08:14 AM
This should help.
Go to DFG's webs site, search for "Guide to Hunting Wild Pigs in California". Scroll down to page 13 and all the departments recommended calibers and minimum bullet weights are posted (Rifles, pistols, muzzle-loaders and shotguns are posted). Quick answer, all 22 calibers firearms are not recommended for pigs. I'm surprised to see .357 magnum pistol on the black list as well.
~

onelilcrazyazn
07-21-2010, 09:50 AM
yea yea yea its recommended size but it not illegel to hunt with

GUSANO
07-21-2010, 10:12 AM
Shot placement! If your gonna do it, place it behind the ear. You'll drop the pig or deer. It ain't happenin with a bear though... that big bear in Tahoe that was wreckin havoc took a 44 to the head point blank and still took off and wrecked havoc for another couple of weeks. It ain't happenin with a bear... I'm sure the warden won't be happy... I'm not trying to get you P-Oed, I'm trying to help keep you outta trouble...
~

onelilcrazyazn
07-21-2010, 01:54 PM
im not really going after bear jux wondering in case one came out while hunting for deer/boar

Fishbucket
07-21-2010, 02:39 PM
unless you are carring around a bear tag... just make some noise and watch as they run off. They are not man eaters as everyone paints them to be.

Reel Fun
07-21-2010, 04:17 PM
I think a 223 would be plenty on smaller sized pigs 150lbs or less. But with that said I think a bolt action with a scope and a well placed (head) shot is what you want. Anything bigger than small pigs....a 243 is a good start and I love my 25-06 for everything deer size!!!! I have seen a small wild pig go down quick with a air riffle and a pellet!!! Make sure that you can shoot accurately before trying it though!!!! As for being legal.....not sure on that on?? Better check with DFG...my guess is its OK????


RF

Reel Fun
07-21-2010, 04:34 PM
yea yea yea its recommended size but it not illegel to hunt with



I looked at the regs.....It looks as if the rules are still the same as years ago...."Any centerfire using softnose expanding bullets" Which means that the 223 is legal!!!! I would be sure my gun is accurate and I am not gonna push it on long shots with a 223 but the question was if it was legal and it is. I would not hunt deer with it...but a good placed shot from a 223 would kill even the biggest of Mule Deer.


RF

bigb08
07-22-2010, 08:14 PM
No less than a 243 is ethical in my opinion for the animals in question.The AR style rifles are becoming very popular , give me a good ol bolt action and a 3x9 and im good to go.

tt31
07-23-2010, 09:55 AM
I looked at the regs.....It looks as if the rules are still the same as years ago...."Any centerfire using softnose expanding bullets"

RF

I am woundering how the barnes copper bullets are legal they are niether soft nosed nor do they expand.

Reel Fun
07-26-2010, 08:03 AM
§353. Methods Authorized for Taking Big Game.
(a) Except for the provisions of subsections 353(b) through (h), Title 14, CCR, big game (as defined by Section 350, Title 14, CCR) may only be taken by rifles using centerfire cartridges with softnose or expanding projectiles; bow and arrow (see Section 354, Title 14, CCR, for archery equipment regulations); or wheellock, matchlock, flintlock or percussion type, including "in-line" muzzleloading rifles using black powder or equivalent black powder substitute, including pellets, with a single projectile loaded from the muzzle and at least .40 caliber in designation. For purposes of Section 353, a "projectile" is defined as any bullet, ball, sabot, slug, buckshot or other device which is expelled from a firearm through a barrel by force







Here it is......

Reel Fun

Reel Fun
07-26-2010, 08:06 AM
I am woundering how the barnes copper bullets are legal they are niether soft nosed nor do they expand.



I think they do expand.....maybe not as much as a Nosler Partition....but they should expand on contact/penetration???

RF

smithstation
07-26-2010, 09:21 PM
I load the barns xxx for my 270 and 300 RUM and they do expand. They retain almost all their weight and for big heavy game I think they penatrate as well as any other bullet I have loaded.

chrism
07-28-2010, 06:40 PM
2 true, somewhat related, stories.

ONE

Many years ago I was a guest at a fellows ranch in central CA. One evening there were 4 large 150-lb class pigs on his front lawn tearing it up rooting for bugs. He quietly took out a single shot hand pump pellet rifle, stepped out his front door and dropped the largest in its tracks. The others did not even look up. About 5 min. later on his 4th shot all 4 were down within 15 feet of each other. I don't believe any moved one step as their buddies “layed down to take a nap”. It probably was not legal, even back then, but he stated how much damage they were doing on his ranch and the meat was all taken and consumed by the families of his ranch hands.

So, shot placement is everything on a pig.

TWO

A few years back, I was deer hunting near the Trinity Alps by myself and had a bear tag. I walked over a ridge and less than 100 yards away laying in the brush was a golden black bear that very easily topped 600# and looked exactly like a grizzly. I could only really get a good head shot with my 300 Win. Magnum. Staring straight at me, I set my crosshairs just below his chin and squeezed off. The bear jumped up and crashed off into thick brush. I went to where he had been laying and could find no blood or hair, nothing but tracks and broken brush. I waited about an hour and then began trailing it through the thick brush. I followed the trail for probably 1/2 mile over another ridge. It was about the scariest hour in my life. Most of the time I couldn't see 5 yards ahead. I never found a trace of blood anywhere which absolutely amazed me as his head literally filled about 25% of my scopes field of view, it seemed, and I had a good, solid, side of small tree rest. So, I guess I just plain missed.

Since that episode, I have completely passed on 3 separate running bear shots and another huge one that was lumbering along a trail probably 250 yards out, and I would never shoot another with anything lighter than my 30-06 even if I am hunting with friends. I never really want to go through another trailing episode like that again.

Never-ever.

Cal.Kellogg
07-29-2010, 06:48 AM
I agree with your assessment, you must have missed that bear. There isn't an animal in the world including lions, tigers, grizzles and even elephants that wouldn't keel over in fairly short order after being shot in the chest by a 300 Win. Mag.

I think a .223 is too light for deer and bear because under hunting conditions you can seldom place your shots with absolute accuracy. Penetration is the issue. If you shoot the animal through the ribs the .223 is a killer, but if you catch the shoulder the bullet may never enter the chest cavity. Having said that any modern deer cartridge, .30-30, .308, 7mm-08, 30-06, .270, 25-06, and even .243 with well constructed bullets will take care of a bear provided the bear is hit solidly in the chest.

I've had the good fortune of shooting 30 plus deer and several other big game animals including bears and as a result of being in a deer hunting club for many years, I have knowledge of 100's of deer killed by other hunters...Based on all this I've come to a conclusion about shot placement and various cartridges...If an expanding bullet from any center fire rifle of .24 caliber or more enters the chest cavity of an animal the animal is not long for this earth. The bullet will rip up the lungs, the heart, major blood vessel or the liver and the animal will bleed to death within minutes.

Certainly debating the merits of the 25-06, .300 mag. .308 or my favorite 7mm mag. is a lot of fun, but a deer or bear on the receiving end of one of these rounds isn't going to know the difference. Shot through the chest the animal will die. If it is shot through the guts or in the leg in will be just as gut shot or crippled no matter if it was hit by a .243 or a .338 win. mag.....

PapaGreg
09-07-2010, 01:31 PM
chrism

I used to hunt the Trinity Alps area years ago, going in from the Coffee Creek area to the general vicinity of Foster lake.

I shot a buck one year and he died in a creek bed that had a lot of growth around the banks. As I was cleaning the buck, I heard a noise in the brush about 30 yards from me, thinking it was another a buck, (it was a 2 buck area in those days), I grabbed my 30.30 and waited for the buck to appear, to my amazement, a HUGE black bear slowly emerged from the berry bushes and stopped to look at me. I placed the first shot in the heart and the chase was on!
Mind you, I was young and in very good shape at the time, the chase went up and down hills, ravines and creek bottoms, I shot that bear several more times and every shot hit him, as I found out when the bear finally gave up and died, and we counted the bullet holes in his hide.
Number one, I was amazed at the size, estimated to be around 400-450 pounds, the thickness of the hide and the battle scars on him. He is hanging on my living room wall now.

When we finally got back to camp and I took what was left of my flannel shirt off, I could not believe the amount of scratches and tears on my arms and chest from manzinita, berrys, trees and bushes, as I did not remember or feel and such thing as the chase was going on.

Without telling you exactly how old I am, there are probably some others on this board remember when you could buy a bear tag for a dollar, and some of the deer zones and bear seasons overlapped.

I have since seen some more HUGE bears in the Alps, but have just let them go their way!

conron
09-22-2010, 04:22 PM
yea yea yea its recommended size but it not illegel to hunt with

After reading all your post I have to say you are exactly the kind of person who should not have a weapon let alone be hunting with it. But then I guess I am just :wallbash:

Reel Fun
09-23-2010, 02:49 PM
After reading all your post I have to say you are exactly the kind of person who should not have a weapon let alone be hunting with it. But then I guess I am just :wallbash:


I think he was saying that the law says that you must use a centerfire with a soft nose expanding bullet.....making the 223 legal or 222 etc. etc.??

RF

twopatch
10-01-2010, 06:51 AM
If you'r barrel has a fast twist 1-9, 1-7. you will be able to shoot heavy,65 grain, game kings.
Having said that, you will need to load these you'r self. I am not aware of any hunting rounds,that you can buy off the shelf. my .223 would not be my first choice for deer,or small pigs. but I would ,if I had to. You will just have to pass up shots,that are not perfect. As for bear,NO way.

dbass
10-01-2010, 07:37 AM
This is the type of information they go over during a Hunter Safety course. Enquiring minds want to know. Do you? Do you?






Have a license.

1969glasspar
10-12-2010, 01:47 AM
smithstation stated that ar style rifles are not legal for purchase anymore. I just wanted to clarify that you can purchase them as long as they are not of certain manufacturers or certain models of manufacturers... It's all on the california doj website. You can buy new uppers and bolt carriers for your AR that are made to fire hunting cartridges and the AR makes a fine hunting rifle. Please people we need to enhance our mission towards replenishing our gun rights. Posts like the one smithstation wrote only hurt us. Educate yourselves.Bill

1969glasspar
10-12-2010, 02:17 AM
WOW onelilcrazyazn, after reading all your posts my and alot of others opinions i hope is that you don't need to be hunting anything ever. Especially if you would shoot and animal and just let it wonder off and die cause you were too lazy to track it.:angry:

MontanaN8V
01-07-2011, 02:55 PM
I think everything worth saying, has been said.